2020 Presidential Election Discussion

Started by snowdragon523 pages
Originally posted by Blakemore
STV is the best method. NZ uses it.

That is something I would like to see implemented in the USA, a rank choice voting method.

Originally posted by snowdragon
That is something I would like to see implemented in the USA, a rank choice voting method.
You might get a Jacinda too then, or even better an AOC.

Originally posted by wxyz
It's a good thing popular vote doesn't win elections.

Amen. Thank God we are a Constitutional Republic instead of a true democracy.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Why?

Because the majority can't be trusted to be right 100% of the time.

If the majority of people think 1 + 1= 3 is that okay?

Originally posted by wxyz
Because the majority can't be trusted to be right 100% of the time.

If the majority of people think 1 + 1= 3 is that okay?

What if the minority thinks 1 + 1 = 3 is that okay?

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Amen. Thank God we are a Constitutional Republic instead of a true democracy.
What exactly is the difference? How many true democracies are in the world?

I'm sure the majority of people in China think Communism is superior to Capitalism lmao. The majority used to think the earth was flat. The majority used to think a big rock falls faster than a little one.

The majority has a long history of being in the wrong. Again, thank The Lord we are actually a republic instead of a democracy. Democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. I'm sure the wolves love that system but the poor sheep? Not so much lol.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
I'm sure the majority of people in China think Communism is superior to Capitalism lmao. The majority used to think the earth was flat. The majority used to think a big rock falls faster than a little one.

The majority has a long history of being in the wrong. Again, thank The Lord we are actually a republic instead of a democracy. Democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. I'm sure the wolves love that system but the poor sheep? Not so much lol.

A minority of people in the world today still think the world is flat.

A minority still think big rocks fall faster.

Originally posted by Newjak
What if the minority thinks 1 + 1 = 3 is that okay?

No, because believing false things is not good.

Thankfully those types of people (those that don't believe in objective truths) have no power anyways.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Amen. Thank God we are a Constitutional Republic instead of a true democracy.
Yeah, **** democracy 😬 smh

Originally posted by wxyz
No, because believing false things is not good.

Thankfully those types of people (those that don't believe in objective truths) have no power anyways.

So then we agree the majority understands 1 + 1 = 2 therefore a popular vote where everyone's voting power is the same should be the way to go.

Good to know 🙂

Originally posted by Newjak
What exactly is the difference? How many true democracies are in the world?
He's been debunked so many times on this drivel, it's shocking.

Originally posted by Newjak
So then we agree the majority understands 1 + 1 = 2 therefore a popular vote where everyone's voting power is the same should be the way to go.

Good to know 🙂

well, yeah. Under a proportionate system or a single transferable vote system then we still all get the same voting power, but they're more respectful to minor parties than first past the post or the stupid electoral college where a lot of people get no representation at all.

Originally posted by Newjak
What exactly is the difference? How many true democracies are in the world?

In a republic, people have inalienable individual rights ( meaning they can never be legally taken away from them no matter how many people vote for them to be removed).

A true democracy is mob rule. It is one of the worst forms of government. In a republic, the individual has rights that protect him or her from the mob.

Here's a good, simple illustration of the two government types in their most basic forms:

Imagine you live in the time period of the Old West but instead of a republic, it is a democracy. Someone accuses you of raping a woman. That person convinces a bunch of other people that you are guilty and they decide that you should be hung for your supposed crime. No one believes your claim that you are innocent. They hang you despite your screams that you did nothing wrong and no one voiced any objections or took up for you.

Now, imagine the same scenario but instead of it being a democracy it is a republic as it actually was historically. Now, when they try to hang you a sheriff happens to come along and say "you can't hang him, he has rights. He will stand trial instead and is presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt."

People who praise true democracy so much are the same people who would say it's ok to violate someone's natural, inherent rights as as long as it's for the so-called "greater good"(those people tend to be socialist and commie slimeballs).

People who understand that we are actually a Republic though would say individual can't have his inalienable rights taken away no matter how many people vote for it to happen.

People who love true democracy tend to be collectivists. People who love a republican form of government prefer individualism over collectivist crap.

Originally posted by Newjak
You know who else pays attention to those polls.

Trump and his team lol. They took those polls and formed a strategy around them to make up ground.

Ding ding!!!

This is why you cannot hand wave the polls even if they have a well-known skew.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
In a republic, people have inalienable individual rights ( meaning they can never be legally taken away from them no matter how many people vote for them to be removed).

A true democracy is mob rule. It is one of the worst forms of government. In a republic, the individual has rights that protect him or her from the mob.

Here's a good, simple illustration of the two government types in their most basic forms:

Imagine you live in the time period of the Old West but instead of a republic, it is a democracy. Someone accuses you of raping a woman. That person convinces a bunch of other people that you are guilty and they decide that you should be hung for your supposed crime. No one believes your claim that you are innocent. They hang you despite your screams that you did nothing wrong and no one voiced any objections or took up for you.

Now, imagine the same scenario but instead of it being a democracy it is a republic as it actually was historically. Now, when they try to hang you a sheriff happens to come along and say "you can't hang him, he has rights. He will stand trial instead and is presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt."

People who praise true democracy so much are the same people who would say it's ok to violate someone's natural, inherent rights as as long as it's for the so-called "greater good"(those people tend to be socialist and commie slimeballs).

People who understand that we are actually a Republic though would say individual can't have his inalienable rights taken away no matter how many people vote for it to happen.

People who love true democracy tend to be collectivists. People who love a republican form of government prefer individualism over collectivist crap.

I would also point out that NO countries (AFAIK) use a majority rules system for this very reason.

Anyone got DMB's excellent and crushing debunking of Ethneo the last time he spouted his drivel? It was hilarious.

Originally posted by Blakemore
Yeah, **** democracy 😬 smh

Correct. Pure Democracy is a terrible governing method.

Pure Democracy always results in majoritarianism which is tyranny of the majority.

Same with minoritarianism which is tyranny of the minority.

In both instances, protections against the majority and minority, what we call Lockean "Natural Rights" which are Life, Liberty, and Property (not "happiness" which is confused for Jefferson's wording in the Declaration of Independence), result in "not a Pure Democracy" and that's a good thing.

Also, the masses can be persuaded, especially in times of unrest and war, to hold terrible positions. Mob Rule is NOT a good thing and it has resulted in some atrocities throughout human history.

This is why you should NEVER EVER EVER support a Pure Democracy system beyond small towns and small cooperatives that operate within more protected rights systems.

Originally posted by Blakemore
Yeah, **** democracy 😬 smh

You seem quite triggered, bro. 😂

Originally posted by dadudemon
Correct. Pure Democracy is a terrible governing method.

Pure Democracy always results in majoritarianism which is tyranny of the majority.

Same with minoritarianism which is tyranny of the minority.

In both instances, protections against the majority and minority, what we call Lockean "Natural Rights" which are Life, Liberty, and Property (not "happiness" which is confused for Jefferson's wording in the Declaration of Independence), result in "not a Pure Democracy" and that's a good thing.

Also, the masses can be persuaded, especially in times of unrest and war, to hold terrible positions. Mob Rule is NOT a good thing and it has resulted in some atrocities throughout human history.

This is why you should NEVER EVER EVER support a Pure Democracy system beyond small towns and small cooperatives that operate within more protected rights systems.

As opposed to being ruled by wealthy land owners? Like it or not, Jackson's rise to power was a suffrage movement.