Michael Korvac vs. Monarch

Originally posted by Bentley

He had the power (it's stated in panel), but that doesn't mean he knows how to use it, because his Ancestors also had that power.

What? He casually killed his father who had full power of Korvac for much longer but suddenly he isn't that powerful?

Thanks for the scan.

OK?

"But, it's not my power that need concern you. Rather, it is the power of my disciple!"

As a reply of Korvac not fearing Strange's power does suggest Krugarr >> Strange at that point.

I'm talking about 616 Dr Strange, GOTG Strange wasn't as powerful as he was in his prime.

"He placed the infant in a realm that exists outside of physical space, Vance Astro. It is a dimension in which not even his power can function"

He explicitly mentions a specific realm/dimension that blocks his powers. It's on panel

After he invoked a spell which bound him.

https://i.imgur.com/SoGm7fA.jpg

"Mystic globe of gazan".

Anyway it really doesn't matter as Monarch can easily BFR him to quantum realm which is outside physical universe too.

Originally posted by Bentley
Zopzop I was waiting for you. I'll handle you in a moment biscuits

-----

He had the power (it's stated in panel), but that doesn't mean he knows how to use it, because his Ancestors also had that power.

This failed against Jaboa Murphy :

and Reed had to time travel to get the UN beams and redirect them at Korvac :

The Korvac personality never even manifested in his later ancestors : Varley and Marshach.

Even in the 30th Century the Korvac personality never manifested itself in his father.

BUT................... when the child Korvac was born, he manifested the Korvac personality at birth :

And if you doubt the baby Korvac had the full power and knowledge of adult Korvac :

Originally posted by abhilegend
What? He casually killed his father who had full power of Korvac for much longer but suddenly he isn't that powerful?

Again, he syphoned his Powers and killed him because his Father had less control over the energy. It goes to prove that knowing how to use those Powers is fundamental to actually gauge the character and his prowess 👆

Originally posted by abhilegend
I'm talking about 616 Dr Strange, GOTG Strange wasn't as powerful as he was in his prime.

Strange varies in powerlevels from his own career. Are you claiming Krugarr to be his inferior for any specific instance?

Old Strange does vaunt the power of his disciple.

Originally posted by abhilegend
After he invoked a spell which bound him.

https://i.imgur.com/SoGm7fA.jpg

"Mystic globe of gazan".

"But what did he do?"

"He placed the instance in a realm…"

Strange explains what the Mystic Globe of Gazan right there awesr

Originally posted by abhilegend
Anyway it really doesn't matter as Monarch can easily BFR him to quantum realm which is outside physical universe too.

Krugarr banned him to a realm inside the Globe of Gazan where his powers doesn't work. Prove they wouldn't work in the Quantum Realm.

Originally posted by zopzop
And if you doubt the baby Korvac had the full power and knowledge of adult Korvac :

Damn it Zop, I told you I was going to handle you after I finished up with Abhi.

Of course he had Korvac's knowledge (he speaks, remembers and syphons his father's Powers) and he does have his power (it's stated right on panel). But that doesn't mean his power is in sync with his physical form at the moment of birth or the few minutes after he gets it. When I say "he doesn't know how to use it" I'm not talking about mental acuteness but also his physical capability of digesting that body to make full use of it.

There is no statement on panel saying he is in perfect sync with his abilities or that he needs adapting, but it's implied that he is a true danger for the whole universe and that there is haste in handling him, which at least suggest he could grow bigger in influence and scope.

Originally posted by Bentley
Again, he syphoned his Powers and killed him because his Father had less control over the energy. It goes to prove that knowing how to use those Powers is fundamental to actually gauge the character and his prowess 👆

Strange varies in powerlevels from his own career. Are you claiming Krugarr to be his inferior for any specific instance?

Old Strange does vaunt the power of his disciple.

"But what did he do?"

"He placed the instance in a realm…"

Strange explains what the Mystic Globe of Gazan right there awesr

Krugarr banned him to a realm inside the Globe of Gazan where his powers doesn't work. Prove they wouldn't work in the Quantum Realm.

Yes, when Krugarr trapped Korvac, he was still undergoing training for sorcerer supreme.

Which was done AFTER he cast the globe.

Quantum realm is outside physical realm. That's only thing needed to depower Korvac.

But I like to see how Korvac wins here.

Originally posted by Bentley
Damn it Zop, I told you I was going to handle you after I finished up with Abhi.

Of course he had Korvac's knowledge (he speaks, remembers and syphons his father's Powers) and he does have his power (it's stated right on panel). But that doesn't mean his power is in sync with his physical form at the moment of birth or the few minutes after he gets it. When I say "he doesn't know how to use it" I'm not talking about mental acuteness but also his physical capability of digesting that body to make full use of it.

There is no statement on panel saying he is in perfect sync with his abilities or that he needs adapting, but it's implied that he is a true danger for the whole universe and that there is haste in handling him, which at least suggest he could grow bigger in influence and scope.

Originally posted by Bentley
Damn it Zop, I told you I was going to handle you after I finished up with Abhi.

Of course he had Korvac's knowledge (he speaks, remembers and syphons his father's Powers) and he does have his power (it's stated right on panel). But that doesn't mean his power is in sync with his physical form at the moment of birth or the few minutes after he gets it. When I say "he doesn't know how to use it" I'm not talking about mental acuteness but also his physical capability of digesting that body to make full use of it.

There is no statement on panel saying he is in perfect sync with his abilities or that he needs adapting, but it's implied that he is a true danger for the whole universe and that there is haste in handling him, which at least suggest he could grow bigger in influence and scope.

Your argument literally contradicts on panel stuff.

Originally posted by zopzop
I'm done with this topic, I just wanted to point out that Abhi wasn't completely wrong.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So you are saying that the baby Korvac didn't have the full power of Korvac because of what exactly? That he killed his father who had much more time to use it?

Korvac did have the full power and he beat his father because he also have more knowledge of that power. That doesn't mean he doesn't need time to adapt as I explained in my reply to Zopzop those are different things.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, when Krugarr trapped Korvac, he was still undergoing training for sorcerer supreme.

He still picked a disciple of his own, but maybe they upped the caps needed to deserve the title? It's an alternate reality so it's really hard to compare with 616 Strange anyways.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Which was done AFTER he cast the globe.

Not according to on-panel dialogue. I just cited Strange explaining what the spell does.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Quantum realm is outside physical realm. That's only thing needed to depower Korvac.

A specific realm outside the physical realm, a specific dimension. That's what depowered Korvac. The dialogue says it twice.

Originally posted by abhilegend
But I like to see how Korvac wins here.

That's another argument for another day.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's just your assumption. A fully grown human with Korvac's power got killed by the baby (you assumed he had less control over the power automatically too).

Your argument literally contradicts on panel stuff.

The situation is tricky because Michael's father is supposed to have his full power but the Baby is born with The Enemy's full consiousness. How is that even possible without a shard of the power being linked within Baby Michael himself?

In 616 Korvac must've set his power to delve into his baby form and that preemptive trigger was beyond the control the Father got. The writting is still pretty sloppy (Korvac Quest is terrible) but that's really the best explanation we can give to Baby Michael suddenly getting glowy and talking*.

*- well, that's not entirely true, I have another idea for why that happened as if, but it's still pretty sloppy and still goes with the idea that Michael's Father was to lost that power by a built-in trigger (just a different one).

Originally posted by zopzop
I'm done with this topic, I just wanted to point out that Abhi wasn't completely wrong.

He isn't. I think that specific argument can be defended.

Originally posted by Bentley
Korvac did have the full power and he beat his father because he also have more knowledge of that power. That doesn't mean he doesn't need time to adapt as I explained in my reply to Zopzop those are different things.

And this is based on what exactly?

He still picked a disciple of his own, but maybe they upped the caps needed to deserve the title? It's an alternate reality so it's really hard to compare with 616 Strange anyways.

Oh gee, another assumption which now I have to take as a fact don't I?

Not according to on-panel dialogue. I just cited Strange explaining what the spell does.

Except it was a mystical globe and not an alternate dimension.

A specific realm outside the physical realm, a specific dimension. That's what depowered Korvac. The dialogue says it twice.

Which happened after he was trapped in the globe.

That's another argument for another day.

Uh-huh.

Originally posted by Bentley
The situation is tricky because Michael's father is supposed to have his full power but the Baby is born with The Enemy's full consiousness. How is that even possible without a shard of the power being linked within Baby Michael himself?

Because Korvac used his power to manifest it in every generation. Coupled that with the knowledge he could drain it from his father.

In 616 Korvac must've set his power to delve into his baby form and that preemptive trigger was beyond the control the Father got. The writting is still pretty sloppy (Korvac Quest is terrible) but that's really the best explanation we can give to Baby Michael suddenly getting glowy and talking*.

*- well, that's not entirely true, I have another idea for why that happened as if, but it's still pretty sloppy and still goes with the idea that Michael's Father was to lost that power by a built-in trigger (just a different one).
.

Or the power was supposed to be passed to each new generation as they were born as explained.

All babies have the power of their adult form. Gayby Bentley vs Fully Ripened Bentley would be won on creativity and wits alone, not raw power. As a baby, he's not bound by facts or ignorance, and I think him having no hard cap there would prove Bodyhair Bentley's undoing.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And this is based on what exactly?

Experience from reading other comics. When a character just gained huge powers under a different body it tends to ask for a period of adaptation.

He also remained in his baby form visually, which doesn't exactly scream "Peak Korvac".

He also was stated to be a threat for the entire timeline if left unchecked (which suggests Krugarr could not just jump at him and BFR him at any given time). This is in panel.

There are reasons to lead towards interpretations other than your assumption of "Korvac was at his pick and he got one-shotted".

Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh gee, another assumption which now I have to take as a fact don't I?

It is a fact he trained another disciple on his own. The statement backing up Krugarr's power is right there in panel.

You are trying to pretend Krugarr is somehow a budget version of 616 Strange (which might be possible?). I'm just openly questioning your line of logic.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Except it was a mystical globe and not an alternate dimension.

Which happened after he was trapped in the globe.

Except that's not what we are being told in panel 😬

"What did he do?"

"He used a binding spell to put him in a globe and then sent him into a different dimension" - said Strange, never

The dialogue is there to clear up what we see on the depiction: Korvac is in a different dimension away from our physical plane and we are still seeing his body. Is that standard for BFR or binding spells? Short answer given by Strange: the orb consists in a pocket realm where Korvac is depowered.

Abhi's explanation of why we can still see Korvac?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because Korvac used his power to manifest it in every generation. Coupled that with the knowledge he could drain it from his father.

Or the power was supposed to be passed to each new generation as they were born as explained.

Yes, that second instance was the other logic I was about to mention. It's probably contradicted by the other characters we saw in Korvac's quest, but these comics aren't very good.

Originally posted by Bentley
Experience from reading other comics. When a character just gained huge powers under a different body it tends to ask for a period of adaptation.

He also remained in his baby form visually, which doesn't exactly scream "Peak Korvac".

So, just your assumption then? Good to know.

He also was stated to be a threat for the entire timeline if left unchecked (which suggests Krugarr could not just jump at him and BFR him at any given time). This is in panel.

There are reasons to lead towards interpretations other than your assumption of "Korvac was at his pick and he got one-shotted".

Neither says that Korvac was at less than full capacity. The bio states explicitly otherwise.

It is a fact he trained another disciple on his own. The statement backing up Krugarr's power is right there in panel.

Yes, that doesn't mean he was at full power. In fact he was straight up stated to be weakened.

You are trying to pretend Krugarr is somehow a budget version of 616 Strange (which might be possible?). I'm just openly questioning your line of logic.

As a trainee opposed to a full blown version of sorcerer supreme? Yes.

Except that's not what we are being told in panel 😬

"What did he do?"

"He used a binding spell to put him in a globe and then sent him into a different dimension" - said Strange, never

Uh-huh. And there is no indication that Korvac was weakened but here we are.

The dialogue is there to clear up what we see on the depiction: Korvac is in a different dimension away from our physical plane and we are still seeing his body. Is that standard for BFR or binding spells? Short answer given by Strange: the orb consists in a pocket realm where Korvac is depowered.

Abhi's explanation of why we can still see Korvac?

Right. But hey, let's see what excuse is there when just fighting Thor is enough energy drainage for Korvac that he got killed by a simple anti matter blast.

The other descendants also have Michael's full power and were less impressive awesr

In the alternate universe of the Guardians the Living Tribunal wanted the Eye of Agamotto to defeat Protege who was abstract level. How powerful is the Sorcerer Supreme supposed to be in this specific instance it's hard to gauge, the people with the title widely fluctuate in power levels and were sometimes used as plot devices. Trying to scale down Michael by using Kruggar needs more proof than just hanging in titles.

I think it's within reason to think Korvac wasn't at his peak for the in panel reasons I listed. But it's up to interpretation, he might be in full capacity 👆

What I don't see is how do you figure Krugarr casts two different spells when no gestures are made for a second one and that the BFR visuals make no sense. I also don't see how we go to having access from a "realm" a specific "dimension" to using Quantum Space as a method of depowering.

Korvac was permanently depowered after being beaten by Red Skull. The Hazmat showing doesn't apply to this version of the character.

Originally posted by Bentley
The other descendants also have Michael's full power and were less impressive awesr

That doesn't apply to Korvac himself.

In the alternate universe of the Guardians the Living Tribunal wanted the Eye of Agamotto to defeat Protege who was abstract level. How powerful is the Sorcerer Supreme supposed to be in this specific instance it's hard to gauge, the people with the title widely fluctuate in power levels and were sometimes used as plot devices. Trying to scale down Michael by using Kruggar needs more proof than just hanging in titles.

We know he was far below Dormammu in power though. So Krugarr was a typical sorcerer supreme.

I think it's within reason to think Korvac wasn't at his peak for the in panel reasons I listed. But it's up to interpretation, he might be in full capacity 👆

What I don't see is how do you figure Krugarr casts two different spells when no gestures are made for a second one and that the BFR visuals make no sense. I also don't see how we go to having access from a "realm" a specific "dimension" to using Quantum Space as a method of depowering.

Fair enough.

Korvac was permanently depowered after being beaten by Red Skull. The Hazmat showing doesn't apply to this version of the character.

Proof?

https://imgur.com/a/N0b0ZcD

"Michael is not omnipotent, his defeats have weakened him"

Then she goes to talk about Red Skull.

But maybe you want to take that statement as an implication that Korvac Saga Michael is stronger than Korvac Quest Michael? mmm

Originally posted by abhilegend
We know he was far below Dormammu in power though. So Krugarr was a typical sorcerer supreme.

You mean because of that time an amped alternate Dormammu caught him unaware in the Dark Dimension? I could see many legit skyfathers being defeated under similar conditions.