weapon h vs superman

Originally posted by Philosophía
I don't understand the question.

If I give a 8 year old superspeed, and I'd tell him to fight at "full capacity", I'd never hit him.

Is Superman dumber than an 8 year old?

Kid would probably run into a wall at some point and knock himself out. They're uncoordinated messes that make Rough N Rowdy boys look like tight rope walkers.

Originally posted by carver9
Me saying he would chop him isnt debating powerset vs powerset, its new saying he would cut him. He has stabbed through heroes though. Wolverine is one of those heroes.

Did he cut him in half? Scans.

Wolverine isn't nearly the hero Superman is. You're ignoring Weapon Hs character, and saying he's going for the killing blow on a hero who he knows has no HF. That's powerset debating.

Edit: and at the same time, Superman WOULDN'T attempt to dodge, and will let himself be chopped in half. Cut once, sure. Twice, three , four times? Come on.

Originally posted by leonidas
i didn't equalize speed because the room would negate a lot of it. weapon h is say, 8' tall. add another 3' for his arms and likely 2' for the claws. supes CAN maneuver some, no doubt, but he has almost no room to do so. i don't think i've ever seen him use anything close to max speed in an area so enclosed. /shrug

The problem is perception. Superman would perceive Weapon H almost frozen in time (think of the diner scene). As long as there is room to move around then it doesn't matter.

Anyhoo

Supes concedes the centre of the room to W. H.

Plays tag for a bit. Gets bored. Grabs the creep by the ankle at light speed and whirls around like a spinning top.

The room gets red real quick.

Superman keeps going until he's cut clean through leonidas's room with his undead adamantium claw thing.

And gives him a wedgie.

i think pr sees what i'm trying to say. in character, superman almost never--really NEVER--accelerates his senses. and we've seen him actively have to switch to hyper sense mode. i guess my question revolves more around what should be considered 'in character'. i would argue that 'in character' superman would NOT accelerate his senses--at least not immediately, in nearly any forum fight. how do we define 'in character'? by what is seen in comics of course. if he doesn't see people as statues in 99.999999% of cases, how can it be considered 'in character' for him to do so here? or better, how is it not OUT of character to suggest he WOULD see wh as a statue?

full capacity is only mitigated by cis in the forum. if we don't use cis as intended, then all we do is debate power sets. i would argue it isn't PIS or stupidity that prevents superman from seeing everyone as statues--it is habit gained from years interacting with normal people. and those interactions DEFINE his character, full capacity, IMO, gets abused here in the forum at the expense of on panel character.

meh, maybe i'm just getting old but it feels at times that we are more and more ignoring the clear depictions we see over and again in the very sources that we draw....everything from.

Originally posted by leonidas
i think pr sees what i'm trying to say. in character, superman almost never--really NEVER--accelerates his senses. and we've seen him actively have to switch to hyper sense mode. i guess my question revolves more around what should be considered 'in character'. i would argue that 'in character' superman would NOT accelerate his senses--at least not immediately, in nearly any forum fight. how do we define 'in character'? by what is seen in comics of course. if he doesn't see people as statues in 99.999999% of cases, how can it be considered 'in character' for him to do so here? or better, how is it not OUT of character to suggest he WOULD see wh as a statue?

full capacity is only mitigated by cis in the forum. if we don't use cis as intended, then all we do is debate power sets. i would argue it isn't PIS or stupidity that prevents superman from seeing everyone as statues--it is habit gained from years interacting with normal people. and those interactions DEFINE his character, full capacity, IMO, gets abused here in the forum at the expense of on panel character.

meh, maybe i'm just getting old but it feels at times that we are more and more ignoring the clear depictions we see over and again in the very sources that we draw....everything from.

Agreed.

And in the same note, I don't see Weapon H attempting a killing blow in the first attack.

So, match starts.

Weapon H out speeds Superman, slashes him.

Superman now knows what Weapon H can do with those gigantic metal claws that are nearly as long as Wolverine is tall (so.... metre long?) .

NOW, does he speed his perceptions up? Or IYO, he keeps on going?

You say it's not how it happens in comic fighting. But this isn't a comic fight.

@ds: i can get behind that, and i agree wh wouldn't go for a killing blow from the start. but he may get in a blow that incapacitates superman somewhat. maybe slows him down? but yes, once he realizes what's going on, it is absolutely reasonable to assume superman would speed up. go full hyper senses ala flash? not sure about that.... he might even start the match with a blitz--as far as that would go in this setting. i just disagree with phil's assessment that he would start the fight seeing wh as a statue when he very literally almost never, ever starts that way--or sees the world that way on a regular basis.

despite my....egging the thread on early, superman can of course win this fight. in this very small enclosed space though i do wonder if superman has any feats to support his use of i'm-unhittable-levels of speed. wh has ALL of weapon x's powers which includes super senses and at least a degree of superspeed himself as well, and we've seen logan can and has hit speedsters in the past. throw in the skill and hf here, and i don't think we can just ASSUME superman, in this scenario, can remain completely untouchable. /shrug

On paper, Superman would be cut in half by Weapon H if hit. But Weapon H, should be a statue to Superman.

Weapon H's claws f*cking Superman up is more likely than Superman operating at a pace where the world is frozen in time based on comic book track records. People are running a bit overboard here. I think Superman's speed will be used to trump Weapon H's superior offensive capabilities and keep him out of range, that's about it. It's like arguing Jane will spam the Motherstorm in every thread (Based on percentages, she's used it far more often compared to this level of speed for Superman).

BECAUSE Weapon H's claws can kill Superman, Superman is by nature more likely to use super-speed. As a result, I think this is a stalemate or I guess edge to Weapon H on most days.

Also, with an Adamantium Skeleton and Hulk's durability, Weapon H should be harder to put down than Juggernaut. Tbh, in a comic book penned by Pak, Weapon H would beat Hulk, Superman and Thor at the same time as he is Pak's current favourite character atm.

I am also convinced Pak is 5 years old. Wolverine + Hulk amalgmation? Smh.

Carver's wet dream.

Originally posted by leonidas
i think pr sees what i'm trying to say. in character, superman almost never--really NEVER--accelerates his senses. and we've seen him actively have to switch to hyper sense mode. i guess my question revolves more around what should be considered 'in character'. i would argue that 'in character' superman would NOT accelerate his senses--at least not immediately, in nearly any forum fight. how do we define 'in character'? by what is seen in comics of course. if he doesn't see people as statues in 99.999999% of cases, how can it be considered 'in character' for him to do so here? or better, how is it not OUT of character to suggest he WOULD see wh as a statue?

full capacity is only mitigated by cis in the forum. if we don't use cis as intended, then all we do is debate power sets. i would argue it isn't PIS or stupidity that prevents superman from seeing everyone as statues--it is habit gained from years interacting with normal people. and those interactions DEFINE his character, full capacity, IMO, gets abused here in the forum at the expense of on panel character.

meh, maybe i'm just getting old but it feels at times that we are more and more ignoring the clear depictions we see over and again in the very sources that we draw....everything from.

Superman and WW can perceive very fast objects (like bullets) 100% of the time.
If you write Superman with that level of perception all the time in a comic then you would have a problem with adversity (as most characters aren't fast).

Superman is not dumb (in character). If someone possess great strength with cutting weapons that can kill him then why would he choose not to use his speed and perception to avoid being hit? He would literally have to be dumb (which he's not). Character's do dumb shit in comics (contradicting their intelligence) because of the plot, not because of their character.

CIS is based off a character's actual intelligence and style of fighting (that does not contradict their intelligence).

Originally posted by h1a8
Superman and WW can perceive very fast objects (like bullets) 100% of the time.
If you write Superman with that level of perception all the time in a comic then you would have a problem with adversity (as most characters aren't fast).

Superman is not dumb (in character). If someone possess great strength with cutting weapons that can kill him then why would he choose not to use his speed and perception to avoid being hit? He would literally have to be dumb (which he's not). Character's do dumb shit in comics (contradicting their intelligence) because of the plot, not because of their character.

CIS is based off a character's actual intelligence and style of fighting (that does not contradict their intelligence).

Of all the posts in this thread that threatened to give me an aneurysm, this is the aneurysmst.

That's only h1 level though. You haven't seen him ramp it all the way up to a8 levels. 😬

Originally posted by leonidas
superman would NOT accelerate his senses--at least not immediately, in nearly any forum fight.

Why would Superman want to get hit?

Would you let yourself get hit?

Would anybody, on this entire forum, ever not use his superspeed to not get hit?

I'm not arguing that he lobotomizes him through the brain, or IMPS him, or vibrates his hand inside his heart, or BFRs him by changing his vibrations. I'm not even arguing he vibrates intangible.

Why doesn't he simply use the most low-level usage of his abilities, the one everybody on this planet Earth would know to use. and neutralize the opponent, that he specifically has basic knowledge and has to beat, at full capacity ?

Why are we treating him like he's retarded?

Scratch that. I think retarded is too weak of a word. That's just around 70 IQ. He'd have to be a single digit.

I mean if we can't agree that "dodging is good. getting hit is bad." in regards, to Superman, well...

Originally posted by leonidas
in character, superman almost never--really NEVER--accelerates his senses. and we've seen him actively have to switch to hyper sense mode.

He always perceives and reacts to events that takes place in fractions of time while he is not "accelerated"

It's why, even while he is in "normal" speed, he is able to hear bullets, react, travel to the other side of the town, and catch it [numerous examples]

It's why he sees Barry passing by him, without his 'perceptions' switched on:
https://imgur.com/a/ZkECHSq

It's not a switch, it's what he puts in focus.

If the numerous examples are not enough, remember that scene of him "switching" to superspeed against Barry? The "hyper sense" mode? I'll let the writer explain it:

It's a fair question, to be sure. I wasn't thinking of Superman "activating" his superspeed perceptions, like it was a light switch that could be turned on and off, so much as it was shifting his perceptions to bring superspeed events and sounds into focus. Like the human eye looking at something small and close up and then adjusting when the viewer looks at something large and far away, I think Superman is perceiving all of these things, ALL of the time, and it's just a question of what he chooses to focus on. But I think Superman is also capable of focusing on macro-scale, "normal" speed events at a rate something similar to that in the typical human range, so that he wouldn't spend a subjective eternity between each word in every sentence that Lois says to him. Similarly, he can chose to perceive visual information much like we do, or he can expand his perceptions and see far into the electromagnetic spectrum, or narrow his focus far enough to see individual atoms. But just like he doesn't see Lois as merely a cloud of electrons, neutrons, and protons, he doesn't perceive every second as composed of a huge number of attosecond-scale events--unless he wants to, of course.

Even IF Superman is below-retarded and doesn't start the match seeing him as a statue, the moment a threat emerges [like an attack], he...simply perceives and reacts to it, and switches on to him being a statue.

I legitimately feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Do we really have to make Superman a goose IQ in order to make threads fair?

Originally posted by Phil
But from Superman's perspective, Weapon H is not even moving

Imagine going to a park, go right next to a statue, and somebody makes a 15 x 15 glass box around you, and tells you to be careful not to get hit.

That's how Superman sees the fight.

This effectively shields him from any attacks Superman can think of. Super-speed is meaningless next to the power of spinny-spins and stabby-stabs. 👆

Is that supposed to be one of dem dere things dat spins both ways? Because there's no way it spins the other way.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

I am also convinced Pak is 5 years old. Wolverine + Hulk amalgmation? Smh.

Originally posted by Galan007
Weapon H holds his arms out and starts spinning in a circle as fast as he can.

Superman calmly inhales all the air in the room.

W. H.

All that physical effort

And absolutely no Oxy 2 for him breathe

I pity the fool.

Originally posted by h1a8
Superman and WW can perceive very fast objects (like bullets) 100% of the time.
If you write Superman with that level of perception all the time in a comic then you would have a problem with adversity (as most characters aren't fast).

Superman is not dumb (in character). If someone possess great strength with cutting weapons that can kill him then why would he choose not to use his speed and perception to avoid being hit? He would literally have to be dumb (which he's not). Character's do dumb shit in comics (contradicting their intelligence) because of the plot, not because of their character.

CIS is based off a character's actual intelligence and style of fighting (that does not contradict their intelligence).

Spiderman and Captain America can see bullets in slow motion as well and Wolverine and Daredevil can still tag them. Debating powerset completely diminish the use of scans.

Originally posted by carver9
Spiderman and Captain America can see bullets in slow motion as well and Wolverine and Daredevil can still tag them. Debating powerset completely diminish the use of scans.

What about Weapon H? Base your reasoning on comics. What speedsters has he fought?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

And in the same note, I don't see Weapon H attempting a killing blow in the first attack.

You do make sense.

Even when forced to fight the Hulk, he cut Banner's face with the blunt side of the claws (only their tips are sharp there), instead of doing it properly and chopping his skull to pieces.