Originally posted by Silent MasterUh.. yeah that's what happens in a functioning legal system. There's no way to determine whether someone can be charged with a crime until they are investigated. The fact that the prosecutor didn't find that he should be charged with collusion only further demonstrates that it wasn't a damn witch hunt.
Only per the report, Trump didn't collude. which means he was investigated for something he didn't do.
Originally posted by mike brown
Uh.. yeah that's what happens in a functioning legal system. There's no way to determine whether someone can be charged with a crime until they are investigated. The fact that the prosecutor didn't find that he should be charged with collusion only further demonstrates that it wasn't a damn witch hunt.
Tell that to all the people that still believe he's guilty and want the investigation to continue until evidence is found.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Only per the report, Trump didn't collude. which means he was investigated for something he didn't do.
The Weasel Words I'm seeing from the Anti-Trumpers is that it did not clear his name, only that Mueller could not find enough dirt to recommend an indictment.
My libertarian pal pointed out that this is not only dishonest of the Anti-Trumper crowd, this is dangerously inappropriate as it violates the innocent until proven guilty clause in the 6th amendment. This type of thinking, just to destroy your political enemies, is taking us further down the path of authoritarianism, fascism, and majoritarianism.
I don't want a populist-mob-rule, pure democracy, at all levels of the government. That's a terrible idea. The average person is woefully ignorant and biased. That's the point of NOT having a pure democracy. We already know the electorate are not capable, on average, of making informed decisions. They don't have the time required to do this. That's why we elect representatives.
Originally posted by dadudemon
The Weasel Words I'm seeing from the Anti-Trumpers is that it did not clear his name, only that Mueller could not find enough dirt to recommend an indictment.My libertarian pal pointed out that this is not only dishonest of the Anti-Trumper crowd, this is dangerously inappropriate as it violates the innocent until proven guilty clause in the 6th amendment. This type of thinking, just to destroy your political enemies, is taking us further down the path of authoritarianism, fascism, and majoritarianism.
I don't want a populist-mob-rule, pure democracy, at all levels of the government. That's a terrible idea. The average person is woefully ignorant and biased. That's the point of NOT having a pure democracy. We already know the electorate are not capable, on average, of making informed decisions. They don't have the time required to do this. That's why we elect representatives.
Yep, it's weasel shit. "Did not exonerate" is not the important part, "found no crime committed" was the important part.
Just like weasels say Barr decided Trump didn't obstruct...it's easier to just say that cuz they can whine and go "Barr doesn't think a president can get indicted herpy dee herp derpity doo". It gets harder to do if they have to point out Rosenstein was involved in the decision too.
Originally posted by mike brown
Innocent until proven guilty is a legal thing.
A criminal investigation is what Mueller and his team were doing.
Treating Trump like he was guilty for over 2 years is anti-American and goes against the basicis of basics of our founding principles (the good ones based on Lockean principles - not the racist ones). Mueller was doing his job. But the democrats and Anti-Trumpers treated Trump like he was guilty, should resign, etc. during the whole investigation. Which is rather scary. That's a path we should not take as Americans (or as humans).
Originally posted by mike brown
Wanting to see what is in the report =! finding him guilty without evidence.
And you'll notice I made no mention, directly or indirectly, to wanting to know the contents of the report in my post. I did make mention in the past that there should be 0 reason to not disclose those details unless some of the information included classified information (then I would call into question who was involved in the investigation, if "Need to know" was compromised, if information handling was compartmentalized properly, etc.).
I view "disclosing the full report" and my "innocent until proven guilty" point to be almost wholly mutually exclusive.
Originally posted by mike brown
I would like to understand why firing Comey isn't obstruction, for example. I'm not calling for his head I'm just looking for transparency.
Either Trump was under investigation by Comey or he wasn't when Trump fired him.
Comey confirmed Trump wasn't. Therefore, the case is rather easy - impossible to obstruct.
Comey's memos are what sparked the Mueller investigation.
Originally posted by SurturAs far as prosecution is concerned, that's true. As far as trying to ascertain exactly what.might be the report, they are both potentially pertinent details. I get the impression you guys are just scared there might be something that makes Trump look bad. What is the "danger" in letting Congress/the public see the report?
Yep, it's weasel shit. "Did not exonerate" is not the important part, "found no crime committed" was the important part.
Originally posted by mike brown
As far as prosecution is concerned, that's true. As far as trying to ascertain exactly what.might be the report, they are both potentially pertinent details. I get the impression you guys are just scared there might be something that makes Trump look bad. What is the "danger" in letting Congress/the public see the report?
None.
And I hope you don't lump me in with "you guys" because I never wanted Trump in office and even made a bet with Stigma (on KMC) that Trump would lose the election.
Okay, looks good.
Two phases to the First Step Act.
If we are being honest, this is the biggest Civil Rights reform, for the black community, that we have seen in decades. The Criminal Justice system disparately impacts the black community. The faster a black man can get back to work once released, the better. The less time he spends in prison, the better. The less opportunities for employers to discriminate against his criminal record, the better (for the former inmate).
This definitely is a step in the right direction for prison reform.
However, the racist leftists are already at it with their propaganda.
Look at MotherJones' headline:
"Trump Is Throwing a Party to Celebrate His Paltry Criminal Justice Reform Efforts"
That's pathetic, sad, terrible, and racist. Why racist? Because trying to bring down reform that will improve the wrongs minorities experience, is racist.
Originally posted by BrolyBlack
You didnt hear about it because you spend to much time hating Trump👆
It would be great if that was the real reason because then the real reason wouldn't be so bad.
The real reason is due to how much hate Trump gets from left-wing media and how echo-chamber-y content sharing platforms are like reddit. So I just do not get exposed to this type of news unless it happens to be on Fox News when I work out.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Okay, looks good.Two phases to the First Step Act.
If we are being honest, this is the biggest Civil Rights reform, for the black community, that we have seen in decades. The Criminal Justice system disparately impacts the black community. The faster a black man can get back to work once released, the better. The less time he spends in prison, the better. The less opportunities for employers to discriminate against his criminal record, the better (for the former inmate).
This definitely is a step in the right direction for prison reform.
However, the racist leftists are already at it with their propaganda.
Look at MotherJones' headline:
"Trump Is Throwing a Party to Celebrate His Paltry Criminal Justice Reform Efforts"
That's pathetic, sad, terrible, and racist. Why racist? Because trying to bring down reform that will improve the wrongs minorities experience, is racist.
Just goes to show you how pathetic, shameful and cowardly Democrats are. Real pieces of shit👆
Originally posted by dadudemon
The Criminal Justice system disparately impacts the black community. The faster a black man can get back to work once released, the better. The less time he spends in prison, the better. The less opportunities for employers to discriminate against his criminal record, the better (for the former inmate).
But I've been told here time and time again (by Trumpers) that our justice/penal system does not disparately impact the black community...