Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well, that's, like, your opinion, man. Not something Kreia said.
"He [Darth Nihilus] cares nothing for the Sith or its teachings… or the Jedi. And when the Jedi are dead, he will feed on the galaxy, the Republic, and eventually, consume the Sith as well. "
^ Show in Kreia's quote where she believes Nihilus wouldn't be able to destroy the Republic or the Sith.
I'll wait. 😎
Here, I'll break it down for those who haven't played KotoR II:
Nihilus's M.O. is traveling to nearby worlds, devouring them of all life and then he does the same thing all over again.
Rinse and repeat.
Kreia just knew that eventually he was going to consume the Sith.
Some people here evidently haven't played KotoR II and they think he needs to "climb in power" or something like that - and nothing in the game or any other material states anything like that.
Nihilus just goes from world to world, devouring all life like Galactus.
Even when Nihilus is starving, he can still do that (Telos)
So there is no imaginary power-ladder required - Nihilus and his power doesn't work like that.
All caught up now?
Anybody still confused? 🙂
Originally posted by AncientPower
Which would be great, if Nihilus had lived to fulfil that strength. But he didn't.
So yeah, "fullfill his strength" isn't something he needs to do.
You have basically no clue of what you're talking about.
Nihilus's power has a simple function - he just devours worlds - and that's it. Even when starved.
Kreia knew he would eventually move onto the Sith and consume them all as well.
The most powerful Sith Lord, Darth Nihilus. 😎
Originally posted by AncientPower
His power is growing as his hunger grows more and more demanding. Nihilus would've eaten the galaxy eventually but he didn't. Everything you're saying is born of ignorance of this basic, argument-shattering fact.
You don't have any argument-shattering facts.
Nihilus didn't end up eating the galaxy because he came into contact with another Force Wound.
Without Meetra Surik, Kreia knew Nihilus would have eventually annihilated the galaxy.
Originally posted by CaveDude33211
Kreia saw the Sith Empire in her visions and she knew about them due to the Sith Heremtica and Sith Holocrons as well.She would know about Vitiate/Valkorion - she would know Nihilus could drain him and all his vessel-bodies on the planet simultaneously, rendering Valkorion's body-transfer pointless and useless.
Valkorion's Voices weren't present on a single world, smart man. He could acquire a Voice from virtually any part of the Galaxy. Secondly, Valkorion wasn't ignorant of developments around him - Darth Nihilus would draw lot of attention.
Additionally, Valkorion, and his Sith in general, were no strangers to the nature and character of Force Drain powers themselves. Valkorion developed numerous safeguards against different types of threats, and I suppose that his IMMORTALITY was an effective counter to Force Drain powers. Keep in mind that Valkorion's powers are not properly understood or realized in storytelling, and otherwise.
I doubt that Darth Nihilus would be able to defeat Valkorion in an actual showdown. Have a good look: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/valkorion-respect-thread-updated-and-expanded-2019-1556713/
Darth Traya issued a conflicting statement likewise:
"It is a technique that is almost as old as the Sith themselves…it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes. It cannot be taught…it can only be gained through instinct, through experiencing its effects, first-hand."
Originally posted by CaveDude33211
She would know that Vitiate/Valkorion needs a ritual and people to sacrifice to drain planets - and that he can't do it instantly like Darth Nihilus can.
Originally posted by CaveDude33211
She also knew of Darth Sidious and would have drawn a comparison between the two in power - if she thought Vitiate/Valkorion were powerful enough to warrant a comparison (which she didn't).
Originally posted by CaveDude33211
Her statements are concise- she knew about the Sith - and she knew of Nihilus's power and the dots are connected from there.She knew he would eventually kill them all.
I seriously doubt that Darth Nihilus could take on the well-prepared Empire and prevail all on his own. The Empire could blow his entire fleet to smithereens, and him too, with its firepower and/or super-weapons much before it would come down to the exchange of blows between Darth Nihilus and Valkorion. The Empire had no shortage of talented Force-users to devise a esoteric solution to neutralize Darth Nihilus as well. Sometimes, a bit of common sense comes in handy.
Perhaps Darth Traya was paranoid and was trying to convince Meetra Surik to do something about Darth Nihilus? The 'frame of mind' factor. Sith love to 'manipulate' their subjects to their advantage, ya know.
Originally posted by Galan007
This thread is becoming an issue. The bashing and whatnot needs to stop or I'll just close the thing.
I agree wholeheartedly - I see no reason why this thread cannot have a discussion that is high-brow in nature - and my point is solid enough where I do not need to prove it with swearing and such. 🙂
I will compliment one of the posters on this thread.
Originally posted by AncientPower
That's literally the point.
So your point is Surik intervened so Nihilus didn't annihilate the galaxy?
Yah - I think that would be obvious.
But my point is that without a Force Wound to stand against him - Nihilus steamrolls Valkorion, his Empire and the entire galaxy.
My point is that we know now without any dispute that Darth Nihilus is the most powerful Sith Lord to ever exist - more powerful than Valkorion/Vitiate and more powerful than Darth Sidious.
Darth Nihilus had the power to wipe out all the Sith Lords and the entire Galaxy.
Even Valkorion and Darth Sidious combined wouldn't have even 1% of Nihilus's power.
Darth Nihilus is far beyond any Dark Lord that ever existed. Period.
Originally posted by Sheev
EVENTUALLY means Nihilus probably could have, given enough time. But he NEVER did, so that is completely irrelevant. We don't get to use hypothetical non-feats on a character's behalf.
There is no "probably" - Kreia saw it as a future vision that without Surik's intervention, Nihilus would annihilate the galaxy.
You got all that? Or are you still confused.
And I'm not stating a feat, or using it as a feat - it's a stated fact in the Saga.
If you're confused about that, let me know. 🙂
Originally posted by Sheev
You ****ing moron.
Go look in a mirror and say that - then you'll be accurate.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I seriously doubt that she knew 'much' about the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire, and Valkorion in particular.
But unlike yourself, Kreia had the ability to foresee the future - and she knew even more than she was letting on. 🙂
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Valkorion's Voices weren't present on a single world, smart man. He could acquire a Voice from virtually any part of the Galaxy. Secondly, Valkorion wasn't ignorant of developments around him - Darth Nihilus would draw lot of attention.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Additionally, Valkorion, and his Sith in general, were no strangers to the nature and character of Force Drain powers themselves. Valkorion developed numerous safeguards against different types of threats, and I suppose that his IMMORTALITY was an effective counter to Force Drain powers.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I doubt that Darth Nihilus would be able to defeat Valkorion in an actual showdown.
Very anti-climatic. 🙂
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Darth Traya issued a conflicting statement likewise:"It is a technique that is almost as old as the Sith themselves…it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes. It cannot be taught…it can only be gained through instinct, through experiencing its effects, first-hand."
That's not a conflicting statement.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is a Wookieepedia invention - not truth.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Care to elaborate? When did she compare these two and in which context?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Darth Nihilus was finding it easy to consume worlds because the Mandalorian Wars and the subsequent Jedi Civil War had taken a heavy toll on the Republic and the Jedi Order. Darth Nihilus was operating virtually unopposed until Meetra Surik began to organize her rebellion and....I seriously doubt that Darth Nihilus could take on the well-prepared Empire and prevail all on his own. The Empire could blow his entire fleet to smithereens, and him too, with its firepower and/or super-weapons much before it would come down to the exchange of blows between Darth Nihilus and Valkorion. The Empire had no shortage of talented Force-users to devise a esoteric solution to neutralize Darth Nihilus as well. Sometimes, a bit of common sense comes in handy.
She also knew about Nihilus shrugging off a super-weapon that ripped a planet into pieces - so unless the Sith have a Deathstar handy - they ain't blowing shit to smithereens.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Perhaps Darth Traya was paranoid and was trying to convince Meetra Surik to do something about Darth Nihilus? The 'frame of mind' factor. Sith love to 'manipulate' their subjects to their advantage, ya know.
You're basically a Valkorion-fanboy trying to shift goalposts around and you have no argument. 🙄
If you have an actual argument as to how Valkorion wouldn't be utterly Force-raped to death in seconds, and his Empire reduced to a smoking husk - then present your argument now.
Otherwise you're wasting my time.
Originally posted by CaveDude33211
Well that's good - I'm happy for your opinion.But unlike yourself, Kreia had the ability to foresee the future - and she knew even more than she was letting on. 🙂
Originally posted by CaveDude33211
Darth Nihilus's drain would simultaneously kill all of Valkorion's Voices on whatever planet they fought on - meaning Valkorion would be dead, Voices or no.
The Sith Emperor is the most powerful Force-user who has ever existed. Unless this implacable enemy can be defeated, the Jedi Order is doomed.
Taken from the Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia
&
The Sith Emperor has mastered the dark side's power to become the most dominating Force-user the galaxy has ever seen.
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Codex Entry titled "The Emperor's Fallen Jedi (Knight)."
- and Valkorion's ability to cheat death time and again is self-explanatory. Even if YOU (somehow) manage to destroy a Voice, YOU haven't eliminated him really. Depending upon YOUR method of bringing his Voice down (if the scale of death and destruction is vast), you will 'unwittingly' fuel his ability to continue to function as a formless intangible presence [1], and he WILL KILL YOU afterwards.
[1] The Jedi Order and/or Sith Order attempted to get a fix on Valkorion's formless intangible presence and prevent him from devastating Ziost:
The Empire's highest ranking officers and dignitaries are now in a state of heightened alert, and the Dark Council has assembled a contingent of powerful Sith seers to get a fix on the Emperor's presence. When he makes his move, it is believed he will not distinguish between former friend or foe, as they will all eventually become his food and none will remain.
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Emperor: Codex entry titled "The Emperor's Return?."
- but this didn't work out; failure.
Valkorion's immortality was really something - a powerful and effective safeguard that would enable him to cheat death from time-to-time.
Even if Darth Nihilus somehow pulls off a Katarr on Valkorion, the former isn't going to prevail and unwittingly fuel Valkorion's powers instead. Darth Nihilus is TOAST in this hypothetical confrontation one way or the other.
Originally posted by CaveDude33211
Not when all of Valkorion's vessel-bodies simultaneously die - then his "immortality" is useless and he's dead. 🙂
Originally posted by CaveDude33211
There wouldn't even be a showdown - as soon as Nihilus got to Dromund Kaas, the whole planet, Valkorion and all his armies would be killed simultaneously.Very anti-climatic. 🙂
In sharp contrast to Dromund Kaas ...... Katarr is a much smaller and remote planet housing millions - easy for Darth Nihilus to approach it virtually unnoticed and devastate it in a short span subsequently, and even in this case, we have the SUBJECTIVE point-of-view of Visas Marr to go by in relation to how it happened.
1. Darth Nihilus has to position his starship really close to a planet in order to commence his attack.
Katarr
Telos IV
Darth Nihilus would be risking getting his fleet blasted to smithereens before he ever gets the chance to position it so close to heavily-guarded Dromund Kaas. The Dread Masters could pull this off on their own while not being there, and the Empire had plenty of space fleets to throw at its enemies regardless.
2. Darth Nihilus draw power from his flagship RAVAGER to fuel his powers:
For the best results, tell her to block the flow of power Nihilus absorbs from the Ravager; this stuns him for a few seconds.
Taken from the Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords: Prima Official Game Guide
- and facilitate his efforts to devastate a planet.
In the meantime, Darth Nihilus led his Sith forces from his flagship, the Ravager, drawing more and more power from worlds that he blasted into ruin.
Taken from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
REMOVE the Ravager from the equation, and Darth Nihilus is not only vulnerable but his supposedly infinite ability to consume a planet is SUSPECT as well.
Darth Nihilus's Force Drain powers are unlikely to affect structures and/or blast a planet into ruin:
"You give others strength to act, but it is also possible to draw upon the strength of others to increase your own. It is similar to drawing upon the Force as Jedi do, but when it is touched by the power of the dark side... it is something else, something deadly. These Sith we face... they have learned how to do this. It is a technique that has been lost for some time, not seen in the days since the ancient Sith. They can use it to consume other Force Sensitives - and at the highest pinnacle of power, use it to consume anything that lives. They draw upon the connections in the Force, and devour it." - Darth Traya
Orbital bombardment on the other hand...
You haven't connected all of the known dots in this regard, and this is why your conclusion is misplaced.
---
Valkorion's devastation of Ziost is officially, and rightfully, stated to be the most powerful expression of Dark Side energy ever.
Whispered rumors have persisted of planets snuffed out through intricate Sith rituals or by way of deadly, arcane machines--such as the device Revan sought to employ on Yavin 4--but Ziost represents a clear display of the corrosive power of the dark side of the Force taken to its extreme.
Taken from the Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Sith Emperor: Codex Entry titled "Death of a World."
Details in this blog: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/s_w_legend/blog/cataclysm-of-planet-ziost/105050/
Sorry kid - Valkorion is Darth Nihilus's superior in virtually every aspect.
Originally posted by CaveDude33211
That's not a conflicting statement.
""You give others strength to act, but it is also possible to draw upon the strength of others to increase your own. It is similar to drawing upon the Force as Jedi do, but when it is touched by the power of the dark side... it is something else, something deadly. It is a technique that is almost as old as the Sith themselves…it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes. It cannot be taught…it can only be gained through instinct, through experiencing its effects, first-hand." - Darth Traya
&
"It is a technique that has been lost for some time, not seen in the days since the ancient Sith. They can use it to consume other Force Sensitives - and at the highest pinnacle of power, use it to consume anything that lives. They draw upon the connections in the Force, and devour it." - Darth Traya
But Force Drain powers clearly predate the likes of Darth Nihilus and Darth Traya by thousands of years. Something is amiss, or Darth Traya was reluctant to teach Meetra Surik because her cover would be blown?
Or you think everything is cut-and-dry in Star Wars?
Originally posted by CaveDude33211
Yes, I remember you being banned from Wookieepedia several times for your arguing against the Admin there. 😄
Originally posted by CaveDude33211
You should re-read my statement again.
Darth Traya SUSPECTED the existence of TRUE SITH but she didn't knew much about their LEADER or even MET the TRUE SITH in person. Provide evidence to the contrary otherwise.
Valkorion was a major source of misdirection to those who sought to extract valuable information about him:
"The Jedi dispatched scouts and spies to learn as much as they could about this new enemy and its enigmatic leader. However, the Sith Emperor was a master of subterfuge and misdirection, continually thwarting all efforts to uncover his dark secrets."
Taken from the Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia
Only a handful of Sith were privileged enough to request an audience with Valkorion, and the remainder understood the fact that it was in their best interest to mind their own business instead of asking too many questions about Valkorion.
Originally posted by CaveDude33211
Except unlike you, Kreia could see the future and knew without Surik's intervention, that these things would actually happen.
"Always in motion, the future is." - Yoda
"The future is always in motion. The Force grants us visions that show us only one of many possible outcomes." - Revan
To give you an idea, Ahsoka Tano foresaw herself as a Jedi Knight in the future but this never came to pass in reality.
Lord Scourge was CONFUSED by the set-of-visions he experienced in relation to the potential outcome of the fight between Valkorion and the TRIO of Revan + Meetra + himself, and decided not to take his chances with Revan. The more likely outcome was of the Valkorion prevailing in this fight, and an independent statement in the novel reinforce this view.
Originally posted by CaveDude33211
She also knew about Nihilus shrugging off a super-weapon that ripped a planet into pieces - so unless the Sith have a Deathstar handy - they ain't blowing shit to smithereens.
Now take a good look at this case: https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/c/ca/Uphrades.png/revision/latest?cb=20150714053350
Doesn't looks like anybody would be alive after that, but a small number of people survived and provided a distress signal to draw attention of potential onlookers to make an effort to rescue them.
Sorry kid - your point is misplaced.
Originally posted by CaveDude33211
So all you have are your uninformed-opinions and speculation to counter the visions and highly-esoteric in-universe knowledge of someone who is clairvoyant?You're basically a Valkorion-fanboy trying to shift goalposts around and you have no argument. 🙄
If you have an actual argument as to how Valkorion wouldn't be utterly Force-raped to death in seconds, and his Empire reduced to a smoking husk - then present your argument now.
Otherwise you're wasting my time.
