Kreia confirms that Darth Nihilus is the most powerful Sith Lord to ever exist

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Yes, she had the ability to foresee the future, but how do you know that she knew more than she was letting on? Care to provide evidence?

I already provided that evidence with the video and lists of her prophecies. She knew about the fall of the Republic, the Sith Empire, the Mandalorians and Sidious - but she was being intentionally-cryptic.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Valkorion is officially more powerful than Darth Nihilus:

The Sith Emperor is the most powerful Force-user who has ever existed. Unless this implacable enemy can be defeated, the Jedi Order is doomed.

Taken from the Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

&

The Sith Emperor has mastered the dark side's power to become the most dominating Force-user the galaxy has ever seen.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Codex Entry titled "The Emperor's Fallen Jedi (Knight)."

Which is written by in-universe historians who didn't even know Darth Nihilus existed.

And Darth Nihilus's planet-level-durability, ability to TK entire fleets of warships and ability to kill all life on a planet in seconds, with no rituals or sacrifices is far beyond anything Valkorion is capable of.

Darth Nihilus is vastly more powerful than Valkorion on his best day.

Plus when Nihilus showed up and killed Valkorion and reduced Dromund Kaas to a lifeless world, the historians would quickly correct their mistake and re-list Darth Nihilus as the most powerful Sith Lord, before he killed them. 😆

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

- and Valkorion's ability to cheat death time and again is self-explanatory. Even if YOU (somehow) manage to destroy a Voice, YOU haven't eliminated him really. Depending upon YOUR method of bringing his Voice down (if the scale of death and destruction is vast), you will 'unwittingly' fuel his ability to continue to function as a formless intangible presence [1], and he WILL KILL YOU afterwards.

[1] The Jedi Order and/or Sith Order attempted to get a fix on Valkorion's formless intangible presence and prevent him from devastating Ziost:

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Emperor: Codex entry titled "The Emperor's Return?."

- but this didn't work out; failure.

Valkorion's immortality was really something - a powerful and effective safeguard that would enable him to cheat death from time-to-time.

Even if Darth Nihilus somehow pulls off a Katarr on Valkorion, the former isn't going to prevail and unwittingly fuel Valkorion's powers instead. Darth Nihilus is TOAST in this hypothetical confrontation one way or the other.

Darth Nihilus's Drain will devour the Force Energy of Valkorion's form - so his body AND Force-energy will die as well.

And even if he survived the Drain, which he wouldn't, Nihilus still shrugged off a super-weapon that ripped a planet into pieces and Valkorion's energy isn't shown to have even %1 of that power.

So Valkorion dies easily either way.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

See above.

See above.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Darth Nihilus would be risking getting his fleet blasted to smithereens before he ever gets the chance to position it so close to heavily-guarded Dromund Kaas. The Dread Masters could pull this off on their own while not being there, and the Empire had plenty of space fleets to throw at its enemies regardless.

Kreia's already foresaw Nihilus annihilating the Sith Empire - meaning there is nothing the Sith could do one way or another - and Nihilus can always drain fighters/warships at a range of several hundred miles at least.

Accordingly, the Sith would be dead before they realized what they were actually dealing with.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

For the best results, tell her to block the flow of power Nihilus absorbs from the Ravager; this stuns him for a few seconds.

Taken from the Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords: Prima Official Game Guide

REMOVE the Ravager from the equation, and Darth Nihilus is not only vulnerable but his supposedly infinite ability to consume a planet is SUSPECT as well.

I can tell you haven't played KotoR II in a long time - Nihilus doesn't need to draw power from the Ravager and doesn't need the Ravager for any of his abilities.

The part of the game you're reading from the Game Guide occurs after Nihilus has attempted to drain Meetra Surik (a Force Wound).

Before Nihilus tries to Drain Meetra Surik, Visas tells you that you have 0% chance of surviving - and if you fight Nihilus anyway - he kills you and your whole party easily.

You should do your research better.

The only thing that is SUSPECT is your knowledge of Jedi and Sith lore.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Darth Nihilus's Force Drain powers are unlikely to affect structures and/or blast a planet into ruin:

"You give others strength to act, but it is also possible to draw upon the strength of others to increase your own. It is similar to drawing upon the Force as Jedi do, but when it is touched by the power of the dark side... it is something else, something deadly. These Sith we face... they have learned how to do this. It is a technique that has been lost for some time, not seen in the days since the ancient Sith. They can use it to consume other Force Sensitives - and at the highest pinnacle of power, use it to consume anything that lives. They draw upon the connections in the Force, and devour it." - Darth Traya

Orbital bombardment on the other hand...

You haven't connected all of the known dots in this regard, and this is why your conclusion is misplaced.

---

Nihilus can kill every living thing on a planet in seconds - he doesn't need to destroy structures or blast planets into ruin.

We've already seen that on Katarr.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Valkorion's devastation of Ziost is officially, and rightfully, stated to be the most powerful expression of Dark Side energy ever.

Whispered rumors have persisted of planets snuffed out through intricate Sith rituals or by way of deadly, arcane machines--such as the device Revan sought to employ on Yavin 4--but Ziost represents a clear display of the corrosive power of the dark side of the Force taken to its extreme.

Taken from the Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Sith Emperor: Codex Entry titled "Death of a World."

Sorry kid - Valkorion is Darth Nihilus's superior in virtually every aspect.

No offense intended, but you really sound mentally-challenged.

You're saying that Valkorion's need for intricate rituals and machines to destroy a world - is superior to Darth Nihilus, when Darth Nihilus can do the same thing with 0 rituals needed, 0 sacrifices, 0 machines and accomplish it literally in seconds?

Sorry kid, you might just be in Special-Education, and if true, you have my sympathies.

It is Darth Nihilus who is then literally Valkorion's superior in literally every aspect.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Darth Traya's assertions are conflicting in the sense that she try to argue that Force Drain powers cannot be taught but acquired through instinct and/or exposure.

""You give others strength to act, but it is also possible to draw upon the strength of others to increase your own. It is similar to drawing upon the Force as Jedi do, but when it is touched by the power of the dark side... it is something else, something deadly. It is a technique that is almost as old as the Sith themselves…it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes. It cannot be taught…it can only be gained through instinct, through experiencing its effects, first-hand." - Darth Traya

&

"It is a technique that has been lost for some time, not seen in the days since the ancient Sith. They can use it to consume other Force Sensitives - and at the highest pinnacle of power, use it to consume anything that lives. They draw upon the connections in the Force, and devour it." - Darth Traya

But Force Drain powers clearly predate the likes of Darth Nihilus and Darth Traya by thousands of years. Something is amiss, or Darth Traya was reluctant to teach Meetra Surik because her cover would be blown?

Or you think everything is cut-and-dry in Star Wars?

What are you trying to say? Jesus Christ. 😆

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

They didn't ban me, but I was notified that I am fueling edit wars with my revelations there. Therefore, I decided to not waste my time.

I'm considering not wasting my time with you.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I rechecked your statement, and I find it utterly lame and in poor taste - your subjective opinion to say the least.

Darth Traya SUSPECTED the existence of TRUE SITH but she didn't knew much about their LEADER or even MET the TRUE SITH in person. Provide evidence to the contrary otherwise.

Not only did Kreia not suspect - but actually knew the Sith Empire existed - and she also foresaw that Darth Nihilus would annihilate it as well.

Her direct knowledge of Valkorion makes little difference, because she knew Darth Nihilus was going to annihilate them all regardless of who their leader was.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Which super-weapon Darth Nihilus shrug off really? Mass Shadow Generator? Darth Nihilus's survival in this case is likely a RANDOM thing, and it took him a while to exit from Malachor V after he was strong and able (thanks in part to teachings of Darth Traya).

Indeed everyone on the surface died, and the only survivors orbited the planet in ships.
And Nihilus was able to TK a warship afterwards - which is by itself a telekinetic feat beyond anything Valkorion or Sidious have done, so yes, he was already very strong. 🙂

And he did all that before even being taught by Kreia.

Sorry, 'Tard. You lose again.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Your arrogance is completely unwarranted, and enjoy your largely unsubstantiated argument being taken apart piece by piece....

I enjoyed taking apart your largely unsubstantiated argument piece by piece.

You haven't done shit, except make yourself look mentally-challenged and thoroughly humiliated yourself.

I've been laughing at you and your futile argument this entire time. tv_happy

You have proven without a shadow of a doubt that Darth Nihilus is indeed the most powerful Sith Lord that ever existed. 😎

^^^

I mistook you for a potential debater, my bad. All I see in your posts is a collection of denial, deflection, insults - rince and repeat.

If you expect an honest debate, then change your tone and approach. Otherwise, I am not wasting my time on the likes of you. Sorry.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
^^^

I mistook you for a potential debater, my bad. All I see in your posts is a collection of denial, deflection, insults - rince and repeat.

If you expect an honest debate, then change your tone and approach. Otherwise, I am not wasting my time on the likes of you. Sorry.

With the way things that go on around here, you expect debates at this point?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
^^^

I mistook you for a potential debater, my bad. All I see in your posts is a collection of denial, deflection, insults - rince and repeat.

If you expect an honest debate, then change your tone and approach. Otherwise, I am not wasting my time on the likes of you. Sorry.

Right. I already told you before I wasn't going to waste my time with you.

You didn't debate - you used inaccurate information (in some ways that were moronic) complete speculation and incoherent rambling.

Everything I posted was 100% Fact.

You're incapable of actual debate - all you do is shift around goal-posts, even when you know you're wrong - which is a waste of my time.

At least people don't treat you like you're smart anymore, which is what they mistakenly did in the past.

By the way, you misspelled "rinse", 'smart man'.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
With the way things that go on around here, you expect debates at this point?

Lol, seriously?

I gave him a debate - he did the following:

1. Insult me repeatedly, after I made attempts to be gentle and civil, even when it became noticeable that his posts were starting to border on the retarded-side.

2. Use in-universe statements written by biased-historians with limited knowledge on galactic events to make inaccurate claims about Valkorion - something even you guys have taken him to task about in the past.

3. Used an argument from a Strategy Guide based on something that happened after Nihilus used Drain on Meetra Surik - this made him look like an idiot, but I was gentle about it.

4. In general used statements that were incoherent to attempt to make a point and failed multiple times.

All the while I laid out factual information and at least attempted to be gentle and polite.

I debated while he talked like a Mongoloid, and you seriously think I wasn't giving him a debate? Seriously?

I was the only one debating in that exchange.

Like others have said, this is what would have happened if Nihilus did not stop eating planets. This is mentioned in the DS route when Traya says Nihilus will reach the peak of his power if he is not stopped. But, I do have Nihilus higher than others. I just dunno how to rank him.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
With the way things that go on around here, you expect debates at this point?

Originally posted by Trocity

Nice attempt though, Cavedude.

Same.

Originally posted by Jaggarath
KMC staying strong

LeG ragdolling. Cavedude is clearly in denial. Vitiate>Nihilus.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Valid observation, my friend. My bad.

Nah - I think at this point he's realized that you're a very special little boy.

Originally posted by TheNuisanceBird
Same.

Hey, nice dance moves. 😆

I like your helmet, too.

Originally posted by HP Legend
LeG ragdolling. Cavedude is clearly in denial. Vitiate>Nihilus.

I ragdolled LeG and he's my girlfriend now.

And I'm always taking new applications. 😉

Now loosen the straps on your bicycle helmet and explain to me why Nihilus wouldn't just Force-rape Vitiate within two seconds.

I'll wait.

Valkorion and Sidious fanboys after learning that Darth Nihilus is the most powerful Sith Lord:

Me:

Originally posted by The Merchant
Like others have said, this is what would have happened if Nihilus did not stop eating planets. This is mentioned in the DS route when Traya says Nihilus will reach the peak of his power if he is not stopped. But, I do have Nihilus higher than others. I just dunno how to rank him.

I would like to see a quote for that.

Kreia also says that Darth Nihilus presently in the game is at the pinnacle of his power:

"...What [Nihilus] does is simply the pinnacle of what they could achieve..."

Darth Nihilus is implied to be at the peak of his power.

Based on Nihilus's feats of:

1. Shrugging off a super-weapon ripping a planet to pieces

2. TKing a fleet of warships

3. Being able to kill every living thing on a planet in seconds - without any rituals or sacrifices - with a power that is unblockable

Puts him far above Sidious and Valkorion.

Kreia seeing Darth Nihilus consume the entire Sith Empire (and it's leader) is easily proof of that.

And Darth Sidious is the most (politically) powerful Sith Lord in galactic history, being able to turn the Republic on the Jedi and destroy them.

But Darth Nihilus is confirmed to be the most powerful Sith Lord that ever existed. Period.

@Cavedude:

Your quote says Nihilus could have destroyed the galaxy and the Sith Empire but that is in the future and obviously doesn't reflect Nihilus's power as of KOTOR 2. Of course if Nihilus drained more worlds he'd eventually surpass Vitiae but that does not mean he had as of KOTOR 2 nor is it relevant. I could easily claim that Vitiate could one shot Nihilus if we gave him the time to gather the power to (e.g. give him time to drain some worlds) but that doesn't mean Vitiate is greater than Nihilus. The exact same principle applies here.

So in other words we have to look at actual feats in which Vitiate clearly outdoes Nihilus. The devastation Vitiate caused while in his highly weakened spirit form is above anything I've seen from Nihilus.

Also it's painfully ironic of you to call people fanboys when you've admitted you hate TOR and love KOTOR 2.

Originally posted by HP Legend
@Cavedude:

Your quote says Nihilus could have destroyed the galaxy and the Sith Empire but that is in the future and obviously doesn't reflect Nihilus's power as of KOTOR 2. Of course if Nihilus drained more worlds he'd eventually surpass Vitiae but that does not mean he had as of KOTOR 2 nor is it relevant. I could easily claim that Vitiate could one shot Nihilus if we gave him the time to gather the power to (e.g. give him time to drain some worlds) but that doesn't mean Vitiate is greater than Nihilus. The exact same principle applies here.

So in other words we have to look at actual feats in which Vitiate clearly outdoes Nihilus. The devastation Vitiate caused while in his highly weakened spirit form is above anything I've seen from Nihilus.

Wrong.

My quote is spoken by Kreia in the middle of the game and refers to Nihilus as he is before he goes to drain Telos.

You have no clue of what you're even talking about and you should do research before speaking.

Vitiate couldn't do shit to Nihilus - Nihilus already shrugged off a super-weapon that is more powerful than Vitiate could hope to be.

With the feats that have been listed we already know that Nihilus virtually outclasses Vitiate in all areas.

- Nihilus's can TK an entire fleet of warships

- Nihilus has planet-level-durability

- Nihilus can kill every living thing on a planet in seconds - without any rituals or sacrifices

Vitiate needs rituals and sacrifices - and he can't do shit against Nihilus in a duel

Nihilus's (area-wide) attack is unblockable, which means once Vitiate is hit, he and all his vessel-bodies die simultaneously.

His spirit, which is composed of Force energy, is consumed as well.

Vitiate can't do shit to Nihilus.

All Vitiate can do is beg for his life, and perhaps Nihilus would have mercy on him and make him into one of his zombies.

Otherwise, Vitiate is just a fattening-lunch for Nihilus.

Originally posted by HP Legend
Also it's painfully ironic of you to call people fanboys when you've admitted you hate TOR and love KOTOR 2.

I don't need to be a fan of Darth Nihilus to know that he simultaneously wrecks Sidious and Vitiate/Valkorion.

You whiny crybaby Sidious and Valkorion worshipers are the fanboys, because you know your arguments are wrong and that Nihilus would own any Sith Lord or Jedi Master that exists, but you don't care and want to waste my time with moronic arguments and then you cry when you lose.

Darth Nihilus is the most powerful Sith Lord that ever existed, Sweetie. That's just how it is.