Originally posted by BrolyBlackNobody condoned this. Most military generals were disgusted when they heard a very small number of troops were acting in this manner.
Japan was so great they sent soldiers into China to dis embow pregnant women.
Anyway, segregation against blacks, Japanese-American concentration camps was no different than the policies of Nazi Germany against Jews and Slavs initially.
Originally posted by BrolyBlackThey put in place trade embargos and refused to sell them oil or buy scrap iron from them (which ironically led to them using it to build their navy)
They sure confined the combing of pear harbor 👆Tell me again what America did to Japan?
Oh that’s right, not a damn thing.
Prior to this, they sent their navy to threaten pacifist Japan in the mid 19th century and forced them into unfavorable trade agreements.
Fearing that they would be turned into a Qing China (British forcing China to accept Opium -- basically Heroin -- in return for tea, silk, etc trade), Japan industrialized rapidly.
The US didn't like having competition so they tried starving Japan of oil and resources. Japan refused to become a subordinate of the West and was forced to invade surrounding lands to gather oil and said resources.
It was the US's fault, really.
Originally posted by TempAccount
Absolutely no comparison. Pearl harbor had 68 civilian deaths. Only 2500 total including military casualties. Dropping a WMD on urban cities is a whole other level.Plus the it was the US Imperialists who were provoking the Japanese with embargos and occupations of South-east Asia.
You retard, we didn’t drop the bombs on them for Pearl Harbor, we dropped the bombs to end the war.
Your conflating stuff and taking things way out of context. You do realize when Pearl Harbor happened, and when the numbs were dropped and what happened in between right?
Get a grip on your life and go watch some one punch man, and be glad we didn’t drop more.
Nagashima was not innocent. They had released records that clearly show Trump colluded with Russia. They were then retaliated against by the USA to win the Civil War. This directly led to the surrender of Julius Caesar and the Democrats in the 2013 presidential election.
However, there is also clear evidence that Hirosaki was innocent. Mueller's report exonerated the Jews who were fighting in Hirosaki. The surviving Jews all committed sudoku after failing to get the 2s and 9s correctly in the squares. The bombing of Hirosaki was wrong and The Undertaker knows it.
Originally posted by TempAccount
Yes because the Trinity nuclear test wasn't enough I guess.Ironically many of those killed (about 1 in 7) were Koreans working in Hiroshima and Nagasaki; the US likely knew this but simply didn't care.
What's even more disturbing is that 11,000+ of the victims were second-generation Japanese-Americans, children of immigrants, studying or visiting Japan. US government didn't care for their own civilians of course, but this isn't surprising considering they arbitrarily placed all the Japanese-Americans and anyone with the slightest Japanese heritage in concentration camps.
As of 2014 there were appx 1000 Japanese Americans affected by the nuclear radiation living in the US. The Japanese government provides them with monetary support for regular screenings and checkups while the US does nothing to make amends for its crime.
American leaders were racist towards the Japanese plain and simple. FDR is a scumbag as was Truman. May they rot in hell.
Nope. Evidence exists that Japan had no interest whatsoever in the US mainland.
Correct, it wasn't. You want to show what your weapon can do in reality and on a real target.
To further that point above, even after Hiroshima Japan didn't surrender. It took a second bombing/test.
Correct, America was highly racist against Japan and the Japanese during WWII, look at all the racist propaganda, interment camps, Superman telling kids to "Slap a Jap". The Japanese were far worst when it came to racism and racial superiority though. eg Look at the war crimes they committed in China and Korea alone. Japanese prison guards were known to be notoriously brutal on American POWs if they happened to be very tall, red-headed and/or well endowed.
Incorrect. Look at the Japanese 'Fu-Go balloon bomb' program, though it ultimately failed as only six people died, Japan had every intention of attacking the US mainland, as Japan did.
Originally posted by Surtur
I'm curious...do you think the Japanese government/military/whatever shares any of the blame in the deaths of those hit by that 2nd nuke?Didn't they have a responsibility to their people...after the first one hit? It's not like we dropped a nuke and gave them 30 minutes to comply, then dropped another one. 3 days passed, why didn't they give up? They saw what we were willing to do and did nothing.
Yet when they thought the russians were gonna come in slaughter their emperor suddenly it was time to stop? Priorities! How much did *they* care about their own women and children? Not much, it seems.
And the thing they needed to learn...that we helped them learn was: don't start nothing won't be nothing
Or it could be "play a stupid game get a stupid radioactive prize". Or both.
This, exactly. After the first bomb they knew damn well that we weren't bluffing yet they still chose to be stubborn. A people should know when they're beaten.
Originally posted by Surtur
I will point out I don't condone the deaths of innocents, but innocent people die in war. So perhaps when a country decides they are gonna start one they should think long and hard about it and be prepared to deal with the consequences.
It seems many jackasses seem to think the japanese were just a bunch of poor, innocent little victims who never did anything wrong. They were the aggressors, not us. Don't start something you aren't able to finish as the old saying goes. For the 2 or 3 sjw snowflake retards in this thread trying to make it seem like the U.S. was the one in the wrong you're all disgusting as f*** and you make me wanna throw up.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Nagashima was not innocent. They had released records that clearly show Trump colluded with Russia. They were then retaliated against by the USA to win the Civil War. This directly led to the surrender of Julius Caesar and the Democrats in the 2013 presidential election.However, there is also clear evidence that Hirosaki was innocent. Mueller's report exonerated the Jews who were fighting in Hirosaki. The surviving Jews all committed sudoku after failing to get the 2s and 9s correctly in the squares. The bombing of Hirosaki was wrong and The Undertaker knows it.
😆 😆
Originally posted by dadudemon
Nagashima was not innocent. They had released records that clearly show Trump colluded with Russia. They were then retaliated against by the USA to win the Civil War. This directly led to the surrender of Julius Caesar and the Democrats in the 2013 presidential election.However, there is also clear evidence that Hirosaki was innocent. Mueller's report exonerated the Jews who were fighting in Hirosaki. The surviving Jews all committed sudoku after failing to get the 2s and 9s correctly in the squares. The bombing of Hirosaki was wrong and The Undertaker knows it.
Maybe that’s why they are mad. Trump blew up the evidence of collusion when he bombed Hiroshima.
After that to get rid of any chance there was anything left he bombed Nagasaki as well.
Originally posted by BrolyBlack
No sorry but you are wrong, and your also an idiot. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Originally posted by BrolyBlack
You retard, we didn’t drop the bombs on them for Pearl Harbor, we dropped the bombs to end the war.Your conflating stuff and taking things way out of context. You do realize when Pearl Harbor happened, and when the numbs were dropped and what happened in between right?
Get a grip on your life and go watch some one punch man, and be glad we didn’t drop more.
Originally posted by Robtard
Correct, it wasn't. You want to show what your weapon can do in reality and on a real target.To further that point above, even after Hiroshima Japan didn't surrender. It took a second bombing/test.
Correct, America was highly racist against Japan and the Japanese during WWII, look at all the racist propaganda, interment camps, Superman telling kids to "Slap a Jap". The Japanese were far worst when it came to racism and racial superiority though. eg Look at the war crimes they committed in China and Korea alone. Japanese prison guards were known to be notoriously brutal on American POWs if they happened to be very tall, red-headed and/or well endowed.
Incorrect. Look at the Japanese 'Fu-Go balloon bomb' program, though it ultimately failed as only six people died, Japan had every intention of attacking the US mainland, as Japan did.
Let me explain how this is 100% the US's fault:
Up until 1853, Japan was an isolationist country minding its own business. The only access to the outside world it had was when Dutch sailors came into port once a month to trade.
Well that all changed when Commodore Perry sailed into Japan with the US naval fleet and threatened Japan's sovereignty:
"Perry first sailed to the Ryukyus and the Bonin Islands southwest and southeast of the main Japanese islands, claiming territory for the United States, and demanding that the people in both places assist him. Perry called on the Ryukyu islands from May 17–26. Ignoring the claims of Satsuma Domain to the islands, as well as his own orders, he threatened and bluffed local authorities by threatening to attack with 200 troops unless he were allowed trading rights and land for a coaling station. Perry landed his Marines, whom he drilled on the beach for hours at a time, and demanded an audience with the Ryukyu King Shō Tai at Shuri Castle. He then sailed north to Edo (Tokyo) Bay, carrying a letter from the U.S. President addressed to the Emperor of Japan. By addressing the letter to the Emperor, the United States demonstrated its lack of knowledge about the Japanese government and society. At that time, the Japanese emperor was little more than a figurehead, and the true leadership of Japan was in the hands of the Tokugawa Shogunate.
Perry arrived in Japanese waters with a small squadron of U.S. Navy ships, because he and others believed the only way to convince the Japanese to accept western trade was to display a willingness to use its advanced firepower. Displaying his audacity and readiness to use force, Perry’s approach into the forbidden waters around Tokyo convinced the Japanese authorities to accept the letter.
The following spring, Perry returned with an even larger squadron to receive Japan’s answer. The Japanese grudgingly agreed to Perry’s demands, and the two sides signed the Treaty of Kanagawa on March 31, 1854. "
Tl;dr:
US sails into Japan, starts claiming islands for its own, threatens the leaders by shooting cannons at the shoreline, and infringes on Japan's sovereignty by sailing into ports closed to foreigners.
Japan was forced to comply for the time being.
These series of events caused the Meiji restoration in which power was granted to the emperor and shoguns stripped of their power.
Centralized power allowed for a rapid industrialization of Japan. Fast forward a few decades; US doesn't like what Japan is doing so they cut off oil and natural resources. Japan is then forced to colonize surrounding lands to get its own.
Japan was terrified at becoming like Qing China where the British destroyed their society with opium.
Originally posted by Kurk
Japan was terrified at becoming like Qing China where the British destroyed their society with opium.
I cannot find a single primary, secondary, or reputable tertiary source for this particular claim. Most likely due to the mismatched historical scenarios and the actual history, not the Faux-Kurk-History that you're trying to push.
Prove me wrong.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I cannot find a single primary, secondary, or reputable tertiary source for this particular claim. Most likely due to the mismatched historical scenarios and the actual history, not the Faux-Kurk-History that you're trying to push.Prove me wrong.
" By granting Harris's treaty, bakufu leaders revoked national isolation, or
sakoku , a hallowed state law then generally, although mistakenly, pre-
sumed to date from the start of Tokugawa rule. Moreover, they flouted the
emperor's will that called for joi 1, or 'expulsion of Western barbarians'.
To a large extent, Consul Harris achieved his diplomatic coup by forcefully
stressing that Japan, like China, would suffer the evils of opium trafficking
and war if Edo did not consent.2 Thus, the bakufu and its supporters
pledged themselves to kaikoku rJ, or 'opening the country'-at least to
the Westerners.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/470468
Abstract:
"The use of opium in China is apparently regarded by the Japanese authorities as one of the causes of the decadence of that empire. To such an extent does this feeling exist that it is said that out of a number of Japanese coolies employed in the China-Japanese War, a certain portion contracted the opium habit and for this were brought before the Japanese commander. Rather than allow them to return to Japan and introduce the habit there, it is reported that he had them lined up and shot. Considering the community of political interests in the Orient, and general friendly feeling between Japan and Great Britain, the pro-opium tendencies of the British government are perhaps worth considering as bringing in a discordant element that may give trouble in the future."
Originally posted by TempAccount
https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/2385356.pdf?casa_token=T4rmP5A4dDUAAAAA:MaaDTaBVD2SLxjxgmjkmiRQaOkS1Dbg2SN9ByYKflFbAooYigpWVZxnYiZUlGyR2ba2wVf0g-wgds2Jj1JitgB1UFQ1Bu3xDmMoHLtZvqBykuInfXw" By granting Harris's treaty, bakufu leaders revoked national isolation, or
.2 Thus, the bakufu and its supporters
sakoku , a hallowed state law then generally, although mistakenly, pre-
sumed to date from the start of Tokugawa rule. Moreover, they flouted the
emperor's will that called for joi 1, or 'expulsion of Western barbarians'.
To a large extent, Consul Harris achieved his diplomatic coup by [b] forcefully
stressing that Japan, like China, would suffer the evils of opium trafficking
and war if Edo did not consent
pledged themselves to kaikoku rJ, or 'opening the country'-at least to
the Westerners.[/B]
So an agreement, entered by both governments, which formally allowed trade and residence in Japan, for the US, is your support?
This won't work. This agreement is also almost 100 years prior to WWII. Formalizing trade agreements in 1858 is hardly the US threatening Japan with an influx of cheap Opium to get Japanese hooked on Opium.
Originally posted by TempAccount
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/470468Abstract:
"The use of opium in China is apparently regarded by the Japanese authorities as one of the causes of the decadence of that empire. To such an extent does this feeling exist that it is said that out of a number of Japanese coolies employed in the China-Japanese War, a certain portion contracted the opium habit and for this were brought before the Japanese commander. [b]Rather than allow them to return to Japan and introduce the habit there, it is reported that he had them lined up and shot
. Considering the community of political interests in the Orient, and general friendly feeling between Japan and Great Britain, the pro-opium tendencies of the British government are perhaps worth considering as bringing in a discordant element that may give trouble in the future." [/B]
This is hearsay. It is not even a primary, secondary, or tertiary source.
If an item starts with, "it is said" or "it was said", the veracity is null and it becomes folklore that is just interesting to read.
On top of that, this is for Britain-Japan relations and that item was written in 1900.
You've proven my point, by the way. This is just Faux-Kurk-History with no veracity.
An agreement that the US strong-armed them into. Japan knew they could either enter willingly and keep some autonomy or become a colony (which is what they feared).
The US threatened Japan with military force, not Opium. Japan was afraid of becoming Qing dynasty in the long-run if they just sat back and openly traded.
British/English it's all the same. The industrialized powers' 'black ships' (new war ships) were the focus. Japan could either industrialize and dominate or be dominated.
I'd offer primary sources if I was fluent in Kanji, but that is not the case.
What is the exact issue here again?