Originally posted by Robtard
[B]Lol at incels blame-shifting their inability to connect with a woman and get laid on "dating apps" now, too funny. It's never their fault, always something or someone else bringing them down and keeping them incel.
I'm just looking at the male incel rates on the graph, comparing them from the more stable 10% in 2008 to the huge 30% spike in 2018 and asking what has changed from then and now ?
Your response is that for some reason, men just up and stopped taking responsibility for themselves for after 2008, which let to the massive spike in incelpdom we see today....
I'm looking at the way people are dating in comparison from then and now, and making a correct conclusion that it's to do with the entrenchment of online interactions becoming the norm, based on facts (do you know what those are?)
The facts :
> Less young people are going to bars and social clubs
> Less young people are even out on the streets, instead relying on delivery services for their consumption needs
> More young people are on dating apps and social media
> More people are getting sex from dating apps and social media messages
Fact is women have an easier time getting sex/casual sex than men, this has been a fact since well before the invention of the internet, smart phones, dating apps and sites.
Cool. I'm glad you recognise it.
The problem is that since the invention of the internet, and particularly smart phones, the disparity has been exacerbated. Which is clearly the case given that the distribution of messages on tinder means that women of all levels are bombarded with likes and messages while men at the top end of the attractiveness curve receive a similar treatment from the opposite sex, with average and below average men getting near to, or completely nothing.
These incels pretending they'd be knee-deep in pussy if it wasn't for dating apps. SMH
TBH, most of them would be getting laid. Like the 90% of men who did in 2008 compared to now.
So yeah. Obviously as a forty year-old something who's been married for a long time, you're not exactly the best person to give their insights on the current trends in dating. You're about as good in these conversations as you are in predicting presidential Russian collusion. So not only are your personal insights worthless here, but the facts don't support your ideas either.
Originally posted by Surtur
But couldn't they just join the dating apps?
It would hurt their chances, and ruin their self esteem, even more than real life dating would.
Women on dating apps find 80% of men below average
https://www.yourtango.com/2016285828/women-find-80-percent-men-unattractive-says-crazy-study
Originally posted by Robtard
Lol at incels blame-shifting their inability to connect with a woman and get laid on "dating apps" now, too funny. It's never their fault, always something or someone else bringing them down and keeping them incel.Fact is women have an easier time getting sex/casual sex than men, this has been a fact since well before the invention of the internet, smart phones, dating apps and sites.
Protip: Taking personal responsibility for once would be a good first step in losing the incel mantel, incels.
Originally posted by Putinbot1
Exactly! 👆
That's a lazy answer.
If the numbers have doubled or tripled in the last few years, there might not be causation, but there should DEFINITELY be some correlation that is studied. I think it's a multi-variate problem but it should be addressed.
Rob, that is a very dismissive attitude. Young men not getting laid and being disenfranchised from society is a problem. Not because I think they are prone to violence, but because (1) they are human beings and their problems are just as relevant as anybody else, (2) 25% of young men checking out of making social progress is an economic burden on the country as a whole. Talent is so goddamn rare, and we have so many problems in society, we need every iota of brainpower we can get from all facets of the population.
I don't know what the solution is, a free and open market place is amoral and a cruel f*cking mistress. On social media, and dating apps, local men are no longer competing with other local men. Local men are competing with the entire digitized world for their local women, and women have all the leverage. This creates an imbalance.
How do you address this imbalance without some of the legislation that inadvertently limits people's ability to choose their form of expression? I'm not smart enough to figure that out. I do know that it IS something worth discussing though.
I am all for a free and open marketplace. I hate affirmative action, I hate any type of coddling or attempt to massage the statistics. I think we should create equal opportunity but that's it. The biggest male privilege, however, is that we have a shifting SMV unlike women: No amount of media bullshit about fat acceptance or social stigma about dating young women will change the biological imperative men have for banging hot 18-25-year-olds. Men are privileged that way. No ugly dudes just broke ones.
So the best bet would probably be better education, and actively engaging young men to participate in schools that is designed for them, not designed for everyone and particularly with girls in mind. Doesn't work imo. This gives them the right foundation to not be such a weak beta fruitloop and work on self-improvement.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That's a lazy answer.If the numbers have doubled or tripled in the last few years, there might not be causation, but there should DEFINITELY be some correlation that is studied. I think it's a multi-variate problem but it should be addressed.
Rob, that is a very dismissive attitude. Young men not getting laid and being disenfranchised from society is a problem. Not because I think they are prone to violence, but because (1) they are human beings and their problems are just as relevant as anybody else, (2) 25% of young men checking out of making social progress is an economic burden on the country as a whole. Talent is so goddamn rare, and we have so many problems in society, we need every iota of brainpower we can get from all facets of the population.
I don't know what the solution is, a free and open market place is amoral and a cruel f*cking mistress. On social media, and dating apps, local men are no longer competing with other local men. Local men are competing with the entire digitized world for their local women, and women have all the leverage. This creates an imbalance.
How do you address this imbalance without some of the legislation that inadvertently limits people's ability to choose their form of expression? I'm not smart enough to figure that out. I do know that it IS something worth discussing though.
I am all for a free and open marketplace. I hate affirmative action, I hate any type of coddling or attempt to massage the statistics. I think we should create equal opportunity but that's it. The biggest male privilege, however, is that we have a shifting SMV unlike women: No amount of media bullshit about fat acceptance or social stigma about dating young women will change the biological imperative men have for banging hot 18-25-year-olds. Men are privileged that way. No ugly dudes just broke ones.
So the best bet would probably be better education, and actively engaging young men to participate in schools that is designed for them, not designed for everyone and particularly with girls in mind. Doesn't work imo. This gives them the right foundation to not be such a weak beta fruitloop and work on self-improvement.
Oh man, online dating scene?
Fat women.
Fat women, everywhere.
With children.
Some as young as 19 having 2 kids.
And they are incredibly picky, too. They put atrocious things in their profiles that would get any man looked over. But still, the ugly, fatass men, continue to bombard all the women if a ton of likes and messages. Because they are thirsty and desperate.
Originally posted by Zucc
It would hurt their chances, and ruin their self esteem, even more than real life dating would.Women on dating apps find 80% of men below average
https://www.yourtango.com/2016285828/women-find-80-percent-men-unattractive-says-crazy-study
Hahaha that's ROUGH man.
Not surprised, you ever go through the dms or inbox of a hot girl? Men are the only ones to blame with their thirstiness. It's a constant ego machine. They NEVER STOP. At this point, I make an active point to always split the bill or have the girl pay. I also never buy my girls drinks. On principle, and just so I can stand out.
If you think you know entitlement, you don't even begin to grasp the level that it can reach in today's hot early 20's female. It's like being a celebrity for just existing. I think it's something older guys just don't understand. It's like a complete cultural shock because it's changed so much.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Oh man, online dating scene?Fat women.
Fat women, everywhere.
With children.
Some as young as 19 having 2 kids.
And they are incredibly picky, too. They put atrocious things in their profiles that would get any man looked over. But still, the ugly, fatass men, continue to bombard all the women if a ton of likes and messages. Because they are thirsty and desperate.
Hahaha ya, the ego of it all. When did being a single parent, warrant a merit badge or something to actively brag about? Ugh.
I use tinder, and set the range at 18-30. I never swipe on overweight individuals so I've filtered them out. I also make it clear, that if you are a catfish, I'm leaving them at the location in 2.1 seconds. I didn't join tinder to met the love of my life, I want a mutual agreement to the exchange of bodily fluids.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Hahaha ya, the ego of it all. When did being a single parent, warrant a merit badge or something to actively brag about? Ugh.I use tinder, and set the range at 18-30. I never swipe on overweight individuals so I've filtered them out. I also make it clear, that if you are a catfish, I'm leaving them at the location in 2.1 seconds. I didn't join tinder to met the love of my life, I want a mutual agreement to the exchange of bodily fluids.
I am the same. I swipe left on almost every single person on Tinder. Almost every single one. Only 1 out of 50 and sometimes 1 out of 100 get a swipe right. It's not that I'm picky. It's just that almost all women on Tinder are fat or clearly disturbed/crazy.
"I'm poly-pan. Send me jokes."
Yup, I'm out. You might get an STD just being in the same room. And there's drama galore with that type.
Have you seen your male competition? Ask a straight girl, who is using tinder, to open the app and show you the "competition." It's hilarious. There's almost 0 good looking men on the app. I really believe women when they say they don't find 80% of the men unattractive in those apps.
I still have better success just talking to women in the real world. I got a bit more than 100 likes with Tinder in 2 days. I had 3 "matches." I didn't waste money on the premium version. I have a very good guess who most of those likes are from (fat women and bots).
Originally posted by gold slorg
lol @ taking tinder seriously
People get laid and form relationships from it. According to research, relationships formed from apps like Tinder last longer, on average,then real life-only ones. They suspect it is because people can determine compatibility more readily with the apps, first, before meeting.
But I closed the app, for sure. Was not happy with the instagram whore models being the only attractive women (and some of those are bots) and all the rest being fatties.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That's a lazy answer.If the numbers have doubled or tripled in the last few years, there might not be causation, but there should DEFINITELY be some correlation that is studied. I think it's a multi-variate problem but it should be addressed.
Rob, that is a very dismissive attitude. Young men not getting laid and being disenfranchised from society is a problem. Not because I think they are prone to violence, but because (1) they are human beings and their problems are just as relevant as anybody else, (2) 25% of young men checking out of making social progress is an economic burden on the country as a whole. Talent is so goddamn rare, and we have so many problems in society, we need every iota of brainpower we can get from all facets of the population.
I don't know what the solution is, a free and open market place is amoral and a cruel f*cking mistress. On social media, and dating apps, local men are no longer competing with other local men. Local men are competing with the entire digitized world for their local women, and women have all the leverage. This creates an imbalance.
How do you address this imbalance without some of the legislation that inadvertently limits people's ability to choose their form of expression? I'm not smart enough to figure that out. I do know that it IS something worth discussing though.
I am all for a free and open marketplace. I hate affirmative action, I hate any type of coddling or attempt to massage the statistics. I think we should create equal opportunity but that's it. The biggest male privilege, however, is that we have a shifting SMV unlike women: No amount of media bullshit about fat acceptance or social stigma about dating young women will change the biological imperative men have for banging hot 18-25-year-olds. Men are privileged that way. No ugly dudes just broke ones.
So the best bet would probably be better education, and actively engaging young men to participate in schools that is designed for them, not designed for everyone and particularly with girls in mind. Doesn't work imo. This gives them the right foundation to not be such a weak beta fruitloop and work on self-improvement.
Let me say, thank you for your on-point and non-whiny reply, but here's what I take issue with in it:
Young men not getting laid isn't really society's problem as people are not owed sex or companionship. Guaranteed sex from someone else isn't a basic human right, sex is something one has to work for (or pay for in an agreement), some people have to work harder than others, but that's life.
That's one of the major problems (if not the) with the incel mindset, they think they're entitled to a woman's affection and sexuality just because they want it, instead of doing what the rest of us normal people did/do, went out and tried, sometimes you fail; sometimes you don't and that's just life again. eg I knew a guy who was a casual sex monster, yet he said he'd only "scored" maybe 1 out of 10 and he was fine with that because he tried nigh constantly. Women at the gym, on the street, in grocery stores, etc., the guy hit on every woman that looked good enough for him and he was average-ish looking at best.
Your "local men are no longer competing with other local men. Local men are competing with the entire digitized world for their local women" is a fair enough point on the surface, but that cuts both ways. Incels in turn can compete with non local woman for companionship, right? How many people find partners outside their immediate place of residence, there's really no reason these incels can't take this same advantage in a digital dating world, it seems like a matter of not applying oneself because you want sex to just come to you.
I don't pretend to have the perfect 100% on point answer, but more coddling isn't it and absolutely having a "but they deserve some sex" outlook isn't it either, not that you implied that.
Tell me more about your ideas to what seems to be an a 'Center for Incels Who Can't Get Laid So Good'. Joke there, but genuinely interested to here your thoughts here.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusIf you think you know entitlement, you don't even begin to grasp the level that it can reach in today's hot early 20's female. It's like being a celebrity for just existing. [b]I think it's something older guys just don't understand.
It's like a complete cultural shock because it's changed so much. [/B]
I agree.
This is the reality of today. And it's no denying it's likely the cause of male inceldom being as high as it is compared to just 10 years ago. I'm lucky enough to have a hot GF who isn't on any social media bar snapchat, for now. On the other hand :
5-10% of young men being incels in 2008 ? Yeah, they're losers, weirdo's and basement dwellers.
30 % of young men being incel today? Women are just more choosy. They have literal hordes of men giving them validation via smartphone and hold all the leverage. Which means a lot of men get left out.
Bolded - You hit the nail on the head with that one. It's why I chuckle to myself whenever Robtard claims to have the solution and understand dating dynamics for young people when he himself is old and married.
Your "local men are no longer competing with other local men. Local men are competing with the entire digitized world for their local women" is a fair enough point on the surface, but that cuts both ways.
That's the thing, it doesn't cut both ways. Didn't DDM just show you the graph of dating inequality online between men and women, in this very thread?
The article titled; Guys unless you are really hot you're probably wasting your time on tinder, and actually backs up it's assertion.
Incels in turn can compete with non local woman for companionship, right? How many people find partners outside their immediate place of residence, there's really no reason these incels can't take this same advantage in a digital dating world
They can't take the same advantage. That's the entire point as stated in the article DDM posted. The online dating scene benefits a very small fraction of men (20%) and a large fraction of women (80%). The truth is that the 2018 incels ( nearly a third of young men now) , at one point in their lives tried it and had very poor success in dating women of a similar attractiveness to themselves.
Honestly Rob, comments like these that really highlight how, not only are you out of touch with young people of this get, but how utterly ignorant you are when making claims that have been debunked by data in this very thread.
FFS, get off of Tinder, Tinder isn't the end-all, be-all of dating, sex and relationships.
All you've shown is that good looking guys do better than average or below (this isn't new info) and that women have an easier time getting casual sex compared to men (this isn't new either). These same rules applied when I was in my 20's.
Honestly, stop screaming "but Tinder data says!". It makes you look very silly.
Protip: Not all incels are ugly guys, incel in a mindset, not a physical deformity.
Originally posted by Zucc
I agree.This is the reality of today. And it's no denying it's likely the cause of male inceldom being as high as it is compared to just 10 years ago. I'm lucky enough to have a hot GF who isn't on any social media bar snapchat, for now. On the other hand :
5-10% of young men being incels in 2008 ? Yeah, they're losers, weirdo's and basement dwellers.
30 % of young men being incel today? Women are just more choosy. They have literal hordes of men giving them validation via smartphone and hold all the leverage. Which means a lot of men get left out.
Bolded - You hit the nail on the head with that one. It's why I chuckle to myself whenever Robtard claims to have the solution and understand dating dynamics for young people when he himself is old and married.
It contributes but it’s not the sole cause. Men are responsible in that they (1) Feed the ego and (2) some have grown lazy and some refuse to take responsibility for their own failings.
The real issue is social media imo. Completely warped the supply and demand of the sexes.
Look at the pickings now vs. the 50’s? Dudes were walking around lean AF, all savage, confident and dapper. It must have been way tougher to stand out. But that takes us back to the core problem: The average person, guy or girl, cannot see the forest from the trees and cannot understand what to do.
The simple fact that we are aware there are solutions to the problem make us much more competitive.
Also, a lot of genuinely nice guys just fall for the modern narrative about what “women want” or how guys “should behave”. Unfortunately, they just don’t realize what women say they want on Twitter and what they actually screen for in a male mate are incongruent AF. Most of these things are subconsciously wired into us. Obviously you have preferences, but some traits are universally attractive. I’m not talking about being an *******, just in general taking charge and leading. Women AND men respond to confident men.
It’s why incels are so disgusting to men and women, it’s the opposite of masculinity.
Originally posted by Robtard
FFS, get off of Tinder, Tinder isn't the end-all, be-all of dating.All you've shown is that good looking guys do better than average or below (this isn't new info) and that women have an easier time getting casual sex compared to men (this isn't new either). These same rules applied when I was in my 20's.
Honestly, stop screaming "but Tinder data says!". It makes you silly.
Protip: Not all incels are ugly guys, incel in a mindset, not a physical deformity.
Tinder is a great representation of Instagram, Snapchat, and bumble etc. A majority of social interactions occur on these platforms, for a lot of people, it’s not as simple as unplugging. It’s how they learned to communicate with each other and the opposite sex. I think you are really underestimating the social significance applications have for the interaction of young people.
I think the issue is not that the top 20% do better. It’s that they do it ALL. I’m trying to figure out how to phrase this.
Picture a poker game: It’s not that the odds are stacked against the bottom 80% of guys with a bad hand. It’s that a majority aren’t even allowed at the table period. They don’t get to play the game. This is a direct contributor for them deciding to check out completely. And because social media is all they know, it’s like they’ve been checked out from society.
Do you see the picture I’m trying to paint?
This is great for me, but I’m trying to think more on a societal level.