Originally posted by WolvesofBabylon
How would you stop someone from closing their fist or snapping their fingers with one hand? Of course she had to use two hands.
Good point. But that doesn't mean she is subduing him.
The scene is similar to that between Thanos and Cap.America. And we can actully see that CM is struggling to keep his hand open...So, Thanos grip force is actually strong enough to cause stress on CM two hands.
Originally posted by Estacado
YouTube video
That shows her punches and shots clearly do effect him. Dont see any evidence of his punches effecting her. And no selling his head butt was super OP.
As for him throwing her, it seems to me he was just trying to get her away from him.
I maintain she can keep her distance and blast away at him. And even with his sword, we dont know if he can hurt her, but its bound to make things much more competitive.
(My post isnt addressed at Estacado. Just quoting your vid for my argument).
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Good point. But that doesn't mean she is subduing him.The scene is similar to that between Thanos and Cap.America. And we can actully see that CM is struggling to keep his hand open...So, Thanos grip force is actually strong enough to cause stress on CM two hands.
At 0:29 she clearly has him overpowered, both using 1 have each. Then Hes forced to use the Power Stone for his punch to do Any damage.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
At 0:29 she clearly has him overpowered, both using 1 have each. Then Hes forced to use the Power Stone for his punch to do Any damage.
Damn...The video has already been deleted.
I think you are meaning to when she activates photonblasters on her legs to fly and subdue Thanos.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
That shows her punches and shots clearly do effect him. Dont see any evidence of his punches effecting her. And no selling his head butt was super OP.As for him throwing her, it seems to me he was just trying to get her away from him.
I maintain she can keep her distance and blast away at him. And even with his sword, we dont know if he can hurt her, but its bound to make things much more competitive.
(My post isnt addressed at Estacado. Just quoting your vid for my argument).
The throw stunned her for a moment.
The punches were hitting him back but there was no damage or anything concrete to prove that she was actually affecting him.
Worst case scenario, she can KO him with a bazillion punches (after a mighty long time). But Thanos isn't going to just stand there.
She had a force field up against the head butt. Thanos never touched her.
Anyway, we go by feats. Her durability has no feats above Cap's shield, which is was damaged by the blade.
Plus you are not considering that Thanos was fighting stupidly and did not use his other hand.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Damn...The video has already been deleted.I think you are meaning to when she activates photonblasters on her legs to fly and subdue Thanos.
Damn it.
Well not only does all her strength and power come from her energy signature, but he also has a height advantage she needed to compensate for.
So her overpowering of him was legit.
Originally posted by 80sBaby
Carol destroyed Thanos blade, actually.
Did she really?
Originally posted by h1a8
1)The throw stunned her for a moment.
2)The punches were hitting him back but there was no damage or anything concrete to prove that she was actually affecting him.
Worst case scenario, she can KO him with a bazillion punches (after a mighty long time). But Thanos isn't going to just stand there.3)She had a force field up against the head butt. Thanos never touched her.
4)Anyway, we go by feats. Her durability has no feats above Cap's shield, which is was damaged by the blade.5)Plus you are not considering that Thanos was fighting stupidly and did not use his other hand.
1) Not really. Was a momentary Bfr which showed Thanos needed to get her away from him. The second he put the gauntlet on She was back on him stopping him closing his fist.
2) Her punches were effecting him. He was being pushed back from them because they hurt him. She also overpowered him and had him on the floor.
3) So? The Forcefield is her durability power. Her strength comes from the exact same power source.
4) Thats silly Logic. Besides Youre the one always claiming physical punches are different to energy blasts, but now when it suits you, a forcefield is the same as a metal shield.
5) When she put him on the floor she was using one hand against his one hand. And In a normal forum fight she wont have to stop him clenching his fist.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
1) Not really. Was a momentary Bfr which showed Thanos needed to get her away from him. The second he put the gauntlet on She was back on him stopping him closing his fist.2) Her punches were effecting him. He was being pushed back from them because they hurt him. She also overpowered him and had him on the floor.
3) So? The Forcefield is her durability power. Her strength comes from the exact same power source.
4) Thats silly Logic. Besides Youre the one always claiming physical punches are different to energy blasts, but now when it suits you, a forcefield is the same as a metal shield.
5) When she put him on the floor she was using one hand against his one hand. And In a normal forum fight she wont have to stop him clenching his fist.
1. No. She was only one to two hundred feat away. It took her 6 seconds to get back. That is 6 seconds to travel about 100-200 ft. So she was either momentarily stunned or she is slow as shit.
2. Her punches were doing absolutely nothing. Thanos caught her hand mid combo. There was absolutely no damage. Worst case scenario, it would take a shit load of punches to put him down.
3. She doesn't always have her forcefield up around her entire body, especially when making contact with something (punching something). Her fists actually made contact with Thanos, Thanos actually grabbed her hand and threw her, and the ground stunned her when Thanos threw her. All three scenarios shows that she did not have a force field up.
4. Force fields can be penetrated through with enough force. They cannot resist infinite force (no limit fallacy). Her forcefield has to have the feats to show that it can resist the force Thanos can exert with a swinging blade or a punch (way greater than a headbutt).
5. Agreed. She caught Thanos by surprise and landed the first blow to his leg. Then she followed it with a big haymaker that did nothing, as Thanos instantly followed it with a haymaker of his own, as she was drawing her hand back. She used flight power to help ground Thanos. In other words, her flight strength is greater that Thanos frictional force on the ground (not his strength). Thanos did not get completely floored and still manage to brace against her, creating a momentary stalemate and proving she's not significantly stronger (if at all).
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
IIRC, his sword blew up when he threw it into the time portal to prevent Carol from reaching it with the IG. I am pretty sure Wanda broke a piece off the one end when they fought though.
That's a good feat for Wanda, not a bad feat for the sword as we saw what the sword was capable of a little while before.
We can't be sure the sword blew up as the movie does not show us it being damaged in the explosion. It's inconclusive whether it was damaged further. Plus Wanda already compromised it, and thus giving the sword an excuse to be damaged further (if it was).
Originally posted by h1a8
That's a good feat for Wanda, not a bad feat for the sword as we saw what the sword was capable of a little while before.
Oh, it's definitely a good feat for Wanda, and is actually fairly consistent with her development, in terms of power showings, considering other feats like stopping a train, catching the airport tower in CA:CW, lifting those giant wheels during the Wakanda battle, and holding back Thanos while destroying the Mind Stone, and what she did to a weakened final form Ultron.
For some reason though, some people label many of these feats outliers or OOC showings, yet use either War Machine downing her by shooting her from behind while she was holding up that building for Cap and Bucky, or her having some issues with Proxima and Corvus, when her attention was divided between them and Vision (one of the few people to really give a shit about her since her brother died, and her current boyfriend, who had a big hole in his chest), as representative of her normal level.
IMO, Endgame is probably her truest showing, as it is a Wanda who has no reason to hold back at all any longer, and just throw everything she has at the guy who destroyed her life from her perspective. And if we consider that both she and Captain Marvel got their powers from Infinity Stones, and how powerful Carol is, it makes sense that Wanda is on the same overall tier, power-wise.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Oh, it's definitely a good feat for Wanda, and is actually fairly consistent with her development, in terms of power showings, considering other feats like stopping a train, catching the airport tower in CA:CW, lifting those giant wheels during the Wakanda battle, and holding back Thanos while destroying the Mind Stone, and what she did to a weakened final form Ultron.For some reason though, some people label many of these feats outliers or OOC showings, yet use either War Machine downing her by shooting her from behind while she was holding up that building for Cap and Bucky, or her having some issues with Proxima and Corvus, when her attention was divided between them and Vision (one of the few people to really give a shit about her since her brother died, and her current boyfriend, who had a big hole in his chest), as representative of her normal level.
IMO, Endgame is probably her truest showing, as it is a Wanda who has no reason to hold back at all any longer, and just throw everything she has at the guy who destroyed her life from her perspective. And if we consider that both she and Captain Marvel got their powers from Infinity Stones, and how powerful Carol is, it makes sense that Wanda is on the same overall tier, power-wise.
My theory is this:
Wanda is extremely powerful when she's prepared for an enemy and is able to fight them on her terms.
But when someone takes her by surprise or fights her in a way that keeps her off balance, her effectiveness massively drops.
I also don't recall if she's ever fought a good long range fighter who was actually taking the fight to her.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Damn it.Well not only does all her strength and power come from her energy signature, but he also has a height advantage she needed to compensate for.
So her overpowering of him was legit.
Did she really?
He did overpower him by using her propulsors.
But I was talking about strength. I mean, she wasn't longer using her muscles but her propulsors.
Originally posted by FrothByte
My theory is this:Wanda is extremely powerful when she's prepared for an enemy and is able to fight them on her terms.
But when someone takes her by surprise or fights her in a way that keeps her off balance, her effectiveness massively drops.
I also don't recall if she's ever fought a good long range fighter who was actually taking the fight to her.
She actually handled Corvus and Proxima fairly well when she could fully focus on them. But she was constantly going after Vision, to try to get him away from them, instead of pressing the instances where she had an advantage.
That's kind of the b!tch thing with TK. Once she actually has someone, there is not all that much they can do about it. Because the number of people who can actually break out of her TK grip all on their own is very, very small. Generally, opponents either get tossed around, or resort to cheap shotting her (like WM, Proxima initially during the Wakanda battle, before getting splattered, Thanos with the ship) to stop her.
I mean someone like Iron Man could probably blow her to bits if he could get a clean shot off. But she could likely use her TK to tear his entire suit clean off his body before he got the chance, unless he shot her from behind or something. As I pointed out in another thread, the energy she wields appears to travel extremely quickly, as she has consistently been able to tag opponents with some very good reaction feats.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
She actually handled Corvus and Proxima fairly well when she could fully focus on them. But she was constantly going after Vision, to try to get him away from them, instead of pressing the instances where she had an advantage.That's kind of the b!tch thing with TK. Once she actually has someone, there is not all that much they can do about it. Because the number of people who can actually break out of her TK grip all on their own is very, very small. Generally, opponents either get tossed around, or resort to cheap shotting her (like WM, Proxima initially during the Wakanda battle, before getting splattered, Thanos with the ship) to stop her.
I mean someone like Iron Man could probably blow her to bits if he could get a clean shot off. But she could likely use her TK to tear his entire suit clean off his body before he got the chance, unless he shot her from behind or something. As I pointed out in another thread, the energy she wields appears to travel extremely quickly, as she has consistently been able to tag opponents with some very good reaction feats.
I actually don't consider her fight with Proxima to be a good showing for her. Theoretically with her power levels she should have been able to simply lift Proxima off the ground, keep her at distance then either crush her or ragdoll her. The fact that she was struggling against Proxima supports what I said: That she struggles with an opponent when she's not fully prepared for them.
Besides, Proxima never looked that powerful in the movie. She seemed roughly around super soldier level. So not that great a showing for Wanda.
Originally posted by FrothByte
I actually don't consider her fight with Proxima to be a good showing for her. Theoretically with her power levels she should have been able to simply lift Proxima off the ground, keep her at distance then either crush her or ragdoll her. The fact that she was struggling against Proxima supports what I said: That she struggles with an opponent when she's not fully prepared for them.Besides, Proxima never looked that powerful in the movie.
Yes, like she did during the final battle, killing Proxima in the process. She knocks both Corvus and Proxima away more than once during their first fight. But then she literally stops attacking them in favour of using her TK to pick up Vision and carry him away instead. So, it's clear that she was prioritising protecting Vision over attacking those two at that time.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yes, like she did during the final battle, killing Proxima in the process. She knocks both Corvus and Proxima away more than once during their first fight. But then she literally stops attacking them in favour of using her TK to pick up Vision and carry him away instead. So, it's clear that she was prioritising protecting Vision over attacking those two at that time.
I rewatched the fight scenes. In the final fight she's only able to take out Proxima because Proxima was occupied trying to kill Black Widow. Wanda was able to attack Proxima from the back.... which again supports my theory that she's very powerful if she's given time to prepare.
As for their initial fight, while it's true she was trying to protect Vision, there were a number of times there where it was just a one on one fight with her and Proxima (without her trying to help out Vision) and it's clear she struggles with Proxima. She does knock them away after a bit but considering the disparity between their power levels she should have been able to do so with far less difficulty.
Yes she was trying to protect Vision but that also supports my theory: that Wanda has a hard time fully functioning when placed in a less than ideal situation.
Originally posted by FrothByte
I rewatched the fight scenes. In the final fight she's only able to take out Proxima because Proxima was occupied trying to kill Black Widow. Wanda was able to attack Proxima from the back.... which again supports my theory that she's very powerful if she's given time to prepare.As for their initial fight, while it's true she was trying to protect Vision, there were a number of times there where it was just a one on one fight with her and Proxima (without her trying to help out Vision) and it's clear she struggles with Proxima. She does knock them away after a bit but considering the disparity between their power levels she should have been able to do so with far less difficulty.
Yes she was trying to protect Vision but that also supports my theory: that Wanda has a hard time fully functioning when placed in a less than ideal situation.
And Proxima started literally both their encounters with cheapshots. And maybe she has a hard time focusing when her boyfriend is potentially dying a few dozen feet away, considering she lost her brother on the battlefield.
And you could literally say that about any hero. Hell, just mentioning Bucky's name at a certain point in time was enough to throw Cap off in a fight.