College grads demanding taxpayers pay off their debt

When the cost of education and healthcare have vastly outpaced median wage increases over the same period of time (the last 40-50 years), you have to take a step back and evaluate the economic sustainability of our post-secondary education system and our healthcare system.

Evaluation complete: it's not sustainable and hasn't been for almost 30 years, now, on both fronts.

So what do we do? Math is math: dollars in simply cannot equal dollars out. We are long beyond the critical point for healthcare costs and post-secondary education costs. There was room to discuss this issue in 1992 or even as late as 1995. But not now. We are way beyond the financial critical point.

What I see from the OP is a fundamental lack of understanding of dollars in, dollars out. The basics of basics of budgeting. You can no longer pick up a part time job during the summer to pay for your college tuition.

Go back to 1960:

If I made $10,000 in a year in 1960, that's the equivalent wage $106k or $126k, today.

https://www.measuringworth.com/calculators/uscompare/relativevalue.php

To put things into perspective:

"median annual tuition and fees at private law schools was $475 ... adjusted for inflation, that's $3,419 in 2011 dollars. The median for public law schools was $204 ... or $1,550 in 2011 dollars

In 2018 dollars, that's $4,080. That's how much private law school would cost someone in 2018 IF the same costs were in place as 1960, adjusted for inflation.

https://cei.org/blog/mind-boggling-increase-tuition-1960-even-students-learn-less-and-less

Let's take some key points away from this:

1. In 1960, private law school had an annual cost of $475 a year. Or $4080 in 2018 dollars.
2. College tuition increases have vastly outpaced median household income over the last 40-50 years. Median household income in 1967 was $7,142.97 or about $103,000 in "income value" in today's standards.
3. Sustainability of college tuition is not there, any longer. It hasn't been since the late 1990s.
4. Creating conservative threads like these to mock struggling Millennials and Gen Z voting citizens does nothing to solve the problem of simple arithmetic. It only makes you look ignorant, callused, or even malicious about the facts.

Full disclosure: my post-secondary education is almost paid off but I make much more than the median US household income and even I have to budget properly or I'd be broke.

Screw these Kids. They know College is HellaSpensive. If they screw up and can't pay em off... THAT AINT MY PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!

Welcome to the Real World SnowFlakes.

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]Screw these Kids. They know College is HellaSpensive. If they screw up and can't pay em off... THAT AINT MY PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!

Welcome to the Real World SnowFlakes. [/B]

Then let the country fall as all the skilled jobs go to countries with far less per capita post-secondary education and healthcare costs.

Don't worry, it's already happening. I step into the office at work and half of the most skilled workers are from India. 🙂 They are better educated and possess more certifications than their American counterparts. College tuition costs far less in India. But they are still getting the English certifications. Meaning, their educations are still legit. Can't hand-wave their success and state that they are getting poor educations since they are getting the same certs Americans get.

Yeah we need to look at the cost of education as well, it needs to go down.

Also more young people need to consider trade schools.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Then let the country fall as all the skilled jobs go to countries with far less per capita post-secondary education and healthcare costs.

Don't worry, it's already happening. I step into the office at work and half of the most skilled workers are from India. 🙂 They are better educated and possess more certifications than their American counterparts. College tuition costs far less in India. But they are still getting the English certifications. Meaning, their educations are still legit. Can't hand-wave their success and state that they are getting poor educations since they are getting the same certs Americans get.

Well if "our kids" go thru college and CAN'T Get Good Jobs after it...they They Aint All that Skilled then are they?

You Play... You Gotta PAY!

Guess that College Education of White Racism and how it correlates to Basket Weaving Degree wasn't such a Good Idea huh Snowflake?

4. Creating conservative threads like these to mock struggling Millennials and Gen Z voting citizens does nothing to solve the problem of simple arithmetic. It only makes you look ignorant, callused, or even malicious about the facts.

Right because someone FORCED these people into university out of high school. Someone said don't go to city college first, trade schools, military. You can go to school part time and work full time especially when you are young without a family.

Paying off their debts reminds me alot of the banking situation we were in, Universities will still win while we pass the responsibility on to the rest of us taxpayers and it doesn nothing to change the cost of university so the next batch of kids can complain about the cost of their life choices.

Originally posted by Surtur
Also more young people need to consider trade schools.

Also, it is not a solution to throw the next generation into the job sector that is leading the charge in alcoholism, depression and suicide rates while also being one of the sectors hit hardest by automation and increased efficiency. Just learn a trade bro is one of the oldest conservative talking points out there, but it's just not a sustainable job field at all.

Originally posted by snowdragon
Someone said don't go to... trade schools, military.

I'll pay my goddamn student loans happily, I'm glad I took the loan on to get the degree I did, but I do think there should be a free, state alternative to paid education. We have free, state education for normal school in the UK so I don't see why we can't have the same for university.

I'd probably choose to go to a loan- or pay-based university either way, but having a state version would open up more opportunities for people to study, and thus give us more trained professionals to take up high-level positions instead of importing them from other countries.

Why would you ever tell someone you love to do either of these things? Also, if your goal is to reduce tax-payers' burden, encouraging more people to join the military is counter-intuitive.

The world needs plumbers, welders, carpenters, truck drivers, cook. Some people like that work just like some people like to program computers, design cars, practice medicine.

Although not everyone has the aptitude to do all things nor the desire.

Someone that joins the military has the opportunity to learn skills that they can use in real life in addition to assisting getting their university paid for and making a living vs a university student just being a student with no work skills or wages from simply being a student.

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]Well if "our kids" go thru college and CAN'T Get Good Jobs after it...they They Aint All that Skilled then are they? [/B]

You mean if our kids CAN'T go through college and get good jobs because they CAN'T stack up against the foreigners who CAN, yes, I agree; we're f*cked.

Originally posted by snowdragon
Right because someone FORCED these people into university out of high school.

Here's how the math works:

1. Cost of living is much higher for the younger generations compared to the past. This is irrespective of inflation due to the weirdly overly inflated education and healthcare costs but rather static costs in other items.
2. You need a degree and/or certifications to get great jobs.
3. Tuition and costs for #2 are far higher than ever relative to median household income.
4. Now our children are FORCED to get college educations or professional certifications where tuition and fees are too costly to afford.

Yes, they are forced. Unless you want them living in poverty, unable to buy homes, unable to start families.

Oh, wait, that's exactly what is happening:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/09/these-are-the-reasons-why-millions-of-millennials-cant-buy-houses.html

Originally posted by snowdragon
Someone said don't go to city college first, trade schools, military. You can go to school part time and work full time especially when you are young without a family.

You do not "trade" type jobs are being slowly whittled away by automation, right? On top of that, trade schools are also victims of the tuition inflation problem. It still costs money to go to those.

Originally posted by snowdragon
Paying off their debts reminds me alot of the banking situation we were in, Universities will still win while we pass the responsibility on to the rest of us taxpayers and it doesn nothing to change the cost of university so the next batch of kids can complain about the cost of their life choices.

1. Pretending they are stupid and entitled because of costs being out of their control, however, is not productive.

2. Someone needs to address the cost issue. Why can't it start with Millenials?

3. There are more solutions to the tuition and healthcare cost problems than just "throw tax dollars at it." That goes for global warming, as well. 🙂

Originally posted by snowdragon
The world needs plumbers, welders, carpenters, truck drivers, cook. Some people like that work just like some people like to program computers, design cars, practice medicine.

This is actually a good point and I've been talking about it a lot.

Plumbers and electricians will be among the last to get automated and replaced by AI.

https://interestingengineering.com/ai-expert-claims-plumbers-and-electricians-will-be-last-to-get-replaced-by-robots

Truck Drivers are already being replaced by SDCs, however. It's not a very stable career if you're just now starting out.

But what about people who just do not want to do those blue-collar type jobs? What if they suck horribly at anything that requires high-skilled hand-eye coordination?

You do not "trade" type jobs are being slowly whittled away by automation, right? On top of that, trade schools are also victims of the tuition inflation problem. It still costs money to go to those.

You can earn as you learn when you are in trade schools, not only that many trades are safe from automation because certain things don't automate well such as working on homes after they are constructed etc.

Here's how the math works:

Yup, no one forced them into university straight out of highschool. Community college and working while you attend school part time are options so is joining the military, I'm not saying don't get an education and making a black and white scenario, just the opposite.

It looks like another govt made problem, make sure more loans are available for education then take over the loans now we want to erase the cost of loans ie put it on the shoulders of everyone else.

Originally posted by snowdragon
You can earn as you learn when you are in trade schools, not only that many trades are safe from automation because certain things don't automate well such as working on homes after they are constructed etc.

Yup, no one forced them into university straight out of highschool. Community college and working while you attend school part time are options so is joining the military, I'm not saying don't get an education and making a black and white scenario, just the opposite.

It looks like another govt made problem, make sure more loans are available for education then take over the loans now we want to erase the cost of loans ie put it on the shoulders of everyone else.

I believe the argument is going to become more and more null as time goes on because post-secondary education will become less and less popular.

"Going to college" will become the stupid move and the college tuition problem will solve itself.

Originally posted by dadudemon
This is actually a good point and I've been talking about it a lot.

Plumbers and electricians will be among the last to get automated and replaced by AI.

https://interestingengineering.com/ai-expert-claims-plumbers-and-electricians-will-be-last-to-get-replaced-by-robots

Truck Drivers are already being replaced by SDCs, however. It's not a very stable career if you're just now starting out.

But what about people who just do not want to do those blue-collar type jobs? What if they suck horribly at anything that requires high-skilled hand-eye coordination?

Well the solution is now obvious: we need to start figuring out ways to transfer our consciousness into robots.

The problem is with people with worthless degrees and people who drop out, and then go around unemployed for a couple of years while watching the interest of their loans take off before finally getting a job in their late twenties serving coffee so that they can make a twenty year payment plan to pay off their loans because of the steep rents.

But poor choices and a lack of ambition doesn't exempt people from their responsibilities. They were of age when they took that loan and they should be expected to pay it back in full.

Originally posted by Astner
The problem is with people with worthless degrees and people who drop out, and then go around unemployed for a couple of years while watching the interest of their loans take off before finally getting a job in their late twenties serving coffee so that they can make a twenty year payment plan to pay off their loans because of the steep rents.

But poor choices and a lack of ambition doesn't exempt people from their responsibilities. They were of age when they took that loan and they should be expected to pay it back in full.

Exactly:

How many students drop out?
57% of students enrolled in college are not done after six years. Of that 57%, 33% of them drop out entirely. The remaining 24% stay enrolled in school, either full- or part-time.

What percentage of Caucasians drop out of college?
Just about 38% of Caucasians drop out of college.

What percentage of Asians drop out of college?
1.2% fewer Asians drop out of college than Caucasians. 63.2% of Asians complete their intended degree.

What percentage of African Americans drop out of college?
62% of African Americans do not complete their intended degree within 6 years of enrollment.

What percentage of Hispanics drop out of college?
54.8% of Hispanics enrolled in college, but do not complete their degree within 6 years.

https://www.creditdonkey.com/college-dropout-statistics.html

Of course, this doesn't cover folks that get degrees in fields that have a low placement or employment history.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
Silly Fly, you even devolve into Fly syntax.

He can't help it. Drugs and all.

Originally posted by snowdragon
Exactly:

How many students drop out?
57% of students enrolled in college are not done after six years. Of that 57%, 33% of them drop out entirely. The remaining 24% stay enrolled in school, either full- or part-time.

What percentage of Caucasians drop out of college?
Just about 38% of Caucasians drop out of college.

What percentage of Asians drop out of college?
1.2% fewer Asians drop out of college than Caucasians. 63.2% of Asians complete their intended degree.

What percentage of African Americans drop out of college?
62% of African Americans do not complete their intended degree within 6 years of enrollment.

What percentage of Hispanics drop out of college?
54.8% of Hispanics enrolled in college, but do not complete their degree within 6 years.

https://www.creditdonkey.com/college-dropout-statistics.html

Of course, this doesn't cover folks that get degrees in fields that have a low placement or employment history.

LOL @ triggered Bernie supporters making excuses for all of these snowflakes demanding taxpayers should have to pay off their college debts.

Quit making excuses for them. They chose to take out those loans for college. No one made them do it. Taxpayers shouldn't have to suffer for it. End of discussion.

I know it's basically pointless trying to argue with crazy Bernie supporters who seem to think money grows on trees and don't seem to believe in personal responsibility so I won't attempt to try. And before someone says these kids are "forced" into taking expensive college courses for degrees that usually end up being worthless because otherwise they can't get a good paying job that is total horseshit and you know it. They have many other options as the attractive Brittany Hughes pointed out in her short video in link I posted in OP so I won't bother repeating them here.