Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnaeRelax. You need to calm down over the fact we get taxed on bs all the time for the elite scum.
Yeah, I really don 't understand the argument that because we've wasted money on wars based on false pretenses that it means we should also all be forced to pay for a bunch of little entitled brats' so-called "education" because they were irresponsible making the choices they made (taking out huge loans that they knew would be extremely hard to pay back) and didn't bother to seriously think it thru or bother to consider their many other much less risky options available to them.Bottom line: forcing taxpayers to pay off other people's student loans is immoral, but considering that the people who support that are also the same ones who praise socialism/communism and think free market capitalism is "evil" it shouldn't really be surprising that they hold that crazy position as well.
Keep in mind also that if these sjw snowflake types were to miraculously get their way and force taxpayers to pay off their debts all it would do is encourage them to be even more irresponsible with their other finances in the future.
Originally posted by TempAccount
Healthcare: Mandate insurance companies create more pools based on health and age brackets (yes allow them to discriminate against conditions).
This is an extremely stupid idea. It makes the problems worse, it does not make them better. This is very close to the worst idea possible to address the skyrocketing healthcare costs. I think you're joking.
Originally posted by TempAccount
Exercising and eating healthy should be rewarded.
This is a brilliant idea and it should be adopted immediately. But the administrative costs of proving compliance could get high. How does one prove they are exercising and eating healthily to get this tax credit?
Originally posted by TempAccount
College: Abolish private universities. Have the state take control of these universities and eliminate the bullshit.
This does not address the problem at all. It just attacks a red herring and increases the actual problem. Now you have more expensive state schools under your scenario with the loss of freedom for those who want to buy a product or service.
Originally posted by TempAccount
Eliminate majors that contain the word "studies" within the name. (Indiana State did something like this a few years ago)
Do you have anything that supports this idea? I'd like to explore it more.
Originally posted by cdtm
Non profits my arse.Yale owns so much land, and brings in so much money. How organizations like that are a non profit is beyond me.
I don't think existing tax money should be paying off tuition. But by all means, strip them of non profit status on all of their holdings and use that towards student loans.
What about doing with the Cherokee Nation does? If you are part of the CN, you can get your college completely paid for. But you have to give up 2 years of your career, post education, to serve the CN. You still get paid. But your actual pay is less than jumping straight into the commercial sector, of course. I think this is a great idea.
But it only works for the CN. I think the Creek Nation has a similar program but I have no experience with that.
Seems like more programs like that could pop up.
Originally posted by snowdragon
So folks whining about someone to fix their problems (that they created) is somehow worthy of govt force? Does this include everyone that dropped out and still has debt?
Please, tell me how the Gen Z children, who are just now entering into college, caused the skyrocteting healthcare costs and tuition costs over the last 50 years? I'd love to read that argument.
Let me know how the millenials did it, as well: I'd love to read that argument.
How could either generation cause these problems that started before they were even born?
Originally posted by snowdragon
Instead the solution from you and several democrats is that every tax paying citizen OWES students that have accrued debt and using force through the govt it will be repaid (at others expense.)
Wait, what? When did I state that was a solution? When did I state what my solution actual was? I'm only pointing out the idiocy of morons who don't understand economics.
Originally posted by snowdragon
Make the universities accountable for the students loans, watch all the garbage degree programs disappear when they become accountable for students success. Paying off their debst while said institutions still rake in money without consequence is no different then what we did with banks (who are bigger then before to big to fail.)
Hey...those programs actually do exist. I think some lawsuits have been started related to claims the universities make, as well.
Originally posted by cdtm
Or medical institutions, who charge whatever they want while everyone blames insurance companies for high medical costs (Insurances don't set medical prices.) Universal medical care would simply be easy money for a broken system, with the the industry essentially shaking down tax payers, like they shake down insurance companies now.
What? No, insurance companies DO set medical prices. These are called the negotiated fees.
And they create pools of these things call "usual and customary" charges.
Insurance companies literally set the prices in the most direct way possible. And then they get to pay those fees. They have so much power that they can force entire hospital networks to fail. When those disagreements happen, everyone starts shitting their pants.
I worked for one of the largest healthcare insurance companies for 2 years. 👆 It was the most corrupt and evil job I ever had.
Please, tell me how the Gen Z children, who are just now entering into college, caused the skyrocteting healthcare costs and tuition costs over the last 50 years? I'd love to read that argument.
I already discussed options for the current generation of would-be university students.
Wait, what? When did I state that was a solution? When did I state what my solution actual was?
Woops, shame on me for the assumption. 👿
College grads demanding taxpayers pay off their debt
This is where I laughed at the idea college grads demand debt payment.
I've said it before that if someone like Bernie got his way and there were no tuition costs we would see alot less people getting into university due to limited slots and the competition of filling said slots.
Originally posted by dadudemon
This is an extremely stupid idea. It makes the problems worse, it does not make them better. This is very close to the worst idea possible to address the skyrocketing healthcare costs. I think you're joking.
Uh no. Healthcare costs more because healthy people are pooled along with unhealthy ones and hence forced to pay the cost of their chronic conditions. It makes problems worse for those who are irresponsible/ignorant and benefits the responsible/healthy.
Originally posted by dadudemon
[B]
This is a brilliant idea and it should be adopted immediately. But the administrative costs of proving compliance could get high. How does one prove they are exercising and eating healthily to get this tax credit?
Physical tests could be administered voluntarily (as a means to reduce premiums) similar to the one required to enter the military. Passing them likely indicates you are in better health.
Originally posted by dadudemon
[B]
This does not address the problem at all. It just attacks a red herring and increases the actual problem. Now you have more expensive state schools under your scenario with the loss of freedom for those who want to buy a product or service.
There is a lot of administrative bullshit and bureaucracy in universities which can only be eliminated by the government acting as a central force. Presidents and deans are payed obscene amounts of salary for no good reason; there are unnecessary positions being created to accommodate alumni who couldn't get a "real job" and the cost of their salary is passed onto tuition. Sports in this country gather an obscene amount of attention and money in universities. Endowment for privates is crazy. Did you know Harvard's endowment is large enough that they could pay every one of their students' tuition for the next 50+ years? (It's 38 billion btw)
Originally posted by dadudemon
[B]
Do you have anything that supports this idea? I'd like to explore it more.
Wisconsin University wants to eliminate english, history, philosophy majors:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-public-college-wants-to-cut-english-history-and-11-other-liberal-arts-majors-2018-03-16
It makes sense, really. Excess useless programs just eat up money and provide nothing in return.
Originally posted by snowdragon
I already discussed options for the current generation of would-be university students.
That doesn't address my question.
Originally posted by snowdragon
This is where I laughed at the idea college grads demand debt payment.I've said it before that if someone like Bernie got his way and there were no tuition costs we would see alot less people getting into university due to limited slots and the competition of filling said slots.
Meanwhile, highly skilled, high-education-required jobs are going to foreigners who are getting extremely low-cost or even free educations.
Why doesn't this concern you?
There's a solution somewhere between free education for all and the current system. What is your suggestion? My mother, who is an accountant, suggested the removal of all government loan subsidies. She said that the bottom would fall out of the education system if they tried to continue down the path of hyper-tuition-inflation. If people cannot get the loans, they can't go to school. Schools would have no choice but to offer more affordable education - no government subsidy to prop up the student loan market.
That gets us part of the way, there. Doesn't solve the problem, imo.
Another option is to require 2 elements be in place:
1. Loans must be paid back at 20% of income or less within 6 years of graduation. At the 6 year mark, the loan is either paid off or forgiven.
2. Schools must guarantee, within 3 sigma, job income and job placement such that 6 year loans can be paid off. If they cannot, they must offer the degrees at lower costs.
"But...but! So many schools would go out of business." Sounds good. 🙂
And why did I use 6 years? Because usury after 7 years is a sin according to the bible. aahahahahaha!!!!! 😮💨
Originally posted by TempAccount
Uh no. Healthcare costs more because healthy people are pooled along with unhealthy ones and hence forced to pay the cost of their chronic conditions. It makes problems worse for those who are irresponsible/ignorant and benefits the responsible/healthy.
Your idea is granted.
Now large swathes of the population cannot afford their healthcare insurance and the existing problem of emergency healthcare use drastically increases causing the most extreme healthcare-cost hyperinflation ever seen.
Ready to rethink your idea?
Or is this your subtle way of implementing eugenics while also ignoring the young and the old?
Originally posted by TempAccount
Physical tests could be administered voluntarily (as a means to reduce premiums) similar to the one required to enter the military. Passing them likely indicates you are in better health.
So you have to actively participate in the discount system to get the tax credit? You can't just prove you're eating well and working out (there will probably be some who still aren't healthy despite those things because of genetic, congenital, or postnatal problems).
I don't have much opposition to this idea. Seems like a good one. What are some problems with this idea that you can think of?
Originally posted by TempAccount
There is a lot of administrative bullshit and bureaucracy in universities which can only be eliminated by the government acting as a central force. Presidents and deans are payed obscene amounts of salary for no good reason; there are unnecessary positions being created to accommodate alumni who couldn't get a "real job" and the cost of their salary is passed onto tuition. Sports in this country gather an obscene amount of attention and money in universities. Endowment for privates is crazy. Did you know Harvard's endowment is large enough that they could pay every one of their students' tuition for the next 50+ years? (It's 38 billion btw)
About the sports thing:
Sort of....very few athletic programs make money for schools. Found this article. Looks like the list is about 8 colleges:
"[They are] University of Georgia (UGA), Louisiana State University, The Pennsylvania State University, and the universities of Iowa, Michigan, Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Texas at Austin."
https://www.acenet.edu/news-room/Pages/Myth-College-Sports-Are-a-Cash-Cow2.aspx
But about the endowments...
Could not these endowments be used to pay for all of the tuition, facility upgrades, equipment upgrades, etc. for most universities? I was looking at this and the investment opportunities with these endowments if invested in mediocre bonds is ridiculous even for smaller state colleges. And couldn't these bond investments be "incestuous" meaning, if the school wanted upgrades, they could get a municipal or state bond approved and then invest money in that generated bond to get their facility upgrades?
But back to the topic: closing all private schools still does not address the problem at all. Like I said, it's a red herring.
Originally posted by TempAccount
Wisconsin University wants to eliminate english, history, philosophy majors:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-public-college-wants-to-cut-english-history-and-11-other-liberal-arts-majors-2018-03-16It makes sense, really. Excess useless programs just eat up money and provide nothing in return.
This is actually super cool. 3 of my degrees are in the Humanities: Philosophy, Political Science, and History.
The classes for those degrees were far more fun and interesting than the 2 STEM degrees I got. However, I can see why those degrees could easily be earned online for quite cheap and still get a quality education (or even better than the classroom). I'm okay with getting rid of those degrees in brick and mortar schools.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Your idea is granted.Now large swathes of the population cannot afford their healthcare insurance and the existing problem of emergency healthcare use drastically increases causing the most extreme healthcare-cost hyperinflation ever seen.
Ready to rethink your idea?
Or is this your subtle way of implementing eugenics while also ignoring the young and the old?
Originally posted by dadudemon
So you have to actively participate in the discount system to get the tax credit? You can't just prove you're eating well and working out (there will probably be some who still aren't healthy despite those things because of genetic, congenital, or postnatal problems).
Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't have much opposition to this idea. Seems like a good one. What are some problems with this idea that you can think of?
Other problems are your standard bribing, discrimination against women's physicals, etc
Originally posted by dadudemon
About the sports thing:
Sort of....very few athletic programs make money for schools. Found this article. Looks like the list is about 8 colleges:"[They are] University of Georgia (UGA), Louisiana State University, The Pennsylvania State University, and the universities of Iowa, Michigan, Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Texas at Austin."
https://www.acenet.edu/news-room/Pages/Myth-College-Sports-Are-a-Cash-Cow2.aspx
Originally posted by dadudemon
But about the endowments...Could not these endowments be used to pay for all of the tuition, facility upgrades, equipment upgrades, etc. for most universities? I was looking at this and the investment opportunities with these endowments if invested in mediocre bonds is ridiculous even for smaller state colleges. And couldn't these bond investments be "incestuous" meaning, if the school wanted upgrades, they could get a municipal or state bond approved and then invest money in that generated bond to get their facility upgrades?
But back to the topic: closing all private schools still does not address the problem at all. Like I said, it's a red herring.
At the very least schools need to be regulated more to solve problems of inefficiency and corruption.
Originally posted by dadudemon
This is actually super cool. 3 of my degrees are in the Humanities: Philosophy, Political Science, and History.The classes for those degrees were far more fun and interesting than the 2 STEM degrees I got. However, I can see why those degrees could easily be earned online for quite cheap and still get a quality education (or even better than the classroom). I'm okay with getting rid of those degrees in brick and mortar schools.
Sanders said forgiving all student loan debt would cost less than the Republican tax cuts:
by the math, he's right. And the student loan debt would be over a longer period of time, too.
So we have a $10+ trillion middle eastern war campaign lasting for almost 20 years, tax cuts that benefited only special interests and the extreme rich, and then we have these weird people on KMC that think forgiving student loan debt is a horrible sin.
I'm not a Sanders voter, nor do I suggest we forgive all student loan debt. But if you wanted to boost the economy, you could get rid of that tax cut, forgive all student loan debt backed by the Federal Government, and end 3 of our 6 active wars.
And STILL end up saving money.
I'm not a Sanders voter, nor do I suggest we forgive all student loan debt. But if you wanted to boost the economy, you could get rid of that tax cut, forgive all student loan debt backed by the Federal Government, and end 3 of our 6 active wars.And STILL end up saving money.
So if all dollars out aren't the same then what is the subjective term used to identify better? What is better?
Originally posted by snowdragon
So if all dollars out aren't the same then what is the subjective term used to identify better? What is better?
This is a great question. Dollars are not the same based on wealth levels. A tax break for me is not the same as a tax break or the bottom quintile of income earners.
Here is how the math works out:
GNP = Gross National Product:
C = consumption spending by individuals
I = investment spending (business spending on machinery, etc.),
G = government purchases
NX = net exports
GNP = C + I + G + NX
Consumer spending typically equals two-thirds of GNP. As you would expect, lowering taxes raises disposable income, allowing the consumer to spend additional sums, thereby, increasing GNP. (To learn more, read Economic Indicators To Know.)Reducing taxes, therefore, pushes out the aggregate demand curve as consumers demand more goods and services with their higher disposable incomes. Supply side tax cuts are aimed to stimulate capital formation. If successful, the cuts will shift both aggregate demand and aggregate supply because the price level for a supply of goods will be reduced, which often leads to an increase in demand for those goods.
Tax Cuts and the Economy
It's a common belief that reducing marginal tax rates would spur economic growth. The idea is that lower tax rates will give people more after-tax income that could be used to buy more goods and services. This is a demand-side argument to support a tax reduction as an expansionary fiscal stimulus. Further, reduced tax rates could boost saving and investment, which would increase the productive capacity of the economy and productivity.However, studies have shown that this isn't necessarily true. Data collected over 25 years by the Bureau of Labor Statistics shows that high income earners spend much less for every tax dollar saved, than low income earners — 86 cents versus 48 cents respectively. Further, a 65-year study by the Congressional Research Service showed that economic growth was not correlated with changes in the top marginal tax and capital gains rate. In other words, economic growth is largely unaffected by how much tax the wealthy pay. Growth is more likely to spur if lower income earners get a tax cut.
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/07/tax_cuts.asp
The short of it: poor people all the way up through the middle to upper middle class simply spend more than the top quintile. A tax break for the first 4 quintiles is a much better boost for the economy than a tax break for the top quintile.
What is best is the proposed FairTax system. People who avoid taxes will be captured with the new system. The poor would get a UBI from the system. Illegals wouldn't be able to hoard cash to avoid taxes. Imagine the tens of millions of illegals and legal immigrants who operate everything in their lives with cash to avoid taxes? Now they'd still have to pay taxes with cash because the federal tax will occur at the point of sale.
All those businesses that use magic to avoid taxes? Captured under the FairTax system. Doesn't matter if they have offshore accounts.
Forgiving all student loan debt and ending 3 out of the 6 active wars we have going on would still save us a ton of money: trillions. It would be a huge boost to the economy as well and all of us would benefit. This type of benefit to everyone but the wealthy would never work in the US because it would be lobbied and corruptly shot down before it took traction.
My post was simply to put into perspective that the tax cuts on the very wealthy that the GOP got passed would pay for complete student loan forgiveness and still end up with $300 billion extra.
The system is no longer of the people, for the people, by the people. It's a true oligarchy with a small handful control almost every decision.
Originally posted by Surtur
Let us say we do this. What about those who paid off their college debt?
They paid it off. So what? They get a free cookie from Subway. What about any time a law was passed where a previously harmed or struggling demographic now struggled in vain? This has happened thousands of times in US History.
Originally posted by Surtur
If they paid off their college debt, but have some other form of debt...are we gonna wipe that away? And if not, why not?
Sounds like a great idea if you want to create jobs and boost the economy as much as possible.
Let's end all 6 of our wars and pay off every American's uncollateralized debt who has less than $250k annual household income.
And still save trillions of dollars (excluding the massive amount of tax revenue, of course). Amazing...
That's how absurd the situation really is. Crazy suggestions like yours would actually end up being extremely helpful to the US.
🙂