True form Darkseid vs Ivory King

Originally posted by Mr Master
Well, aside from the fact that one can crunch a universe, and tank multi-universe attacks,

but the other can't tank a planet scale explosion.

You think that's equality? 😐

Doesn’t change the fact these new beyonders have no grey areas. They have high end feats, and real low end feats.

Better yet, not all Beyonders are created equal.

Here’s one. The Imps from DC. No Imp stands even close to Mxy, we also don’t give other Imps Mxy’s feats because there Imps. We treat them all differently..

Originally posted by SquallX

Doesn’t change the fact these new beyonders have no grey areas.
They have high end feats, and real low end feats.

Originally posted by SquallX

Better yet, not all Beyonders are created equal.

And not just yip yappin an opinion, but highlighting so many hints presented on panel.
This story of course like all works of fiction
has its moments open to interpretation left for the readers to define,
we connect the dots spread through the story and conclude a meaning.

If you peep the other thread involving these Kings, plus this one,
you'll notice a sound rationalization I put forth justifying this idea.

Again homie could be wrong, but then what's the point of being here right?

Originally posted by SquallX

Here’s one. The Imps from DC. No Imp stands even close to Mxy,
we also don’t give other Imps Mxy’s feats because there Imps.

We treat them all differently..

Originally posted by SquallX
Better yet, not all Beyonders are created equal.

Per on panel evidence there are the 'child' Beyonders, and the 'regular/adult' Beyonders -- TWO defined tiers of power. However, no explicit evidence from the source material states that the adult units themselves have varying levels of power. So far as can be proven, all of the adult units operate at around the same level... And we only saw the adult Beyonders during HickmanWars.

Those are the facts of the matter, with all speculation removed.

Originally posted by Galan007
They aren't all created equal.

Per on panel evidence there are the 'child' Beyonders, and the 'regular/adult' Beyonders -- TWO defined tiers of power. However, no explicit evidence from the source material states that the adult units themselves have varying levels of power. So far as can be proven, all of the adult units operate at around the same level... And we only saw the adult Beyonders during HickmanWars.

Those are the facts of the matter, with all speculation removed.

I guess I should have been more clear.

It seems some posters are trying to imply the feats of Secret War Beyonder can be given to these new Beyonders.

That’s why I made the distinction between not giving the other Imps Mxy’s fest even though they are all Imps.

^^ I agree.

Imo, It's unequivocal that the adult units manifest in varying levels of power per showings.

Forget about the "child unit" ... which clearly contradicts Pym's statement.

Only concentrating on Hickman's BeyonderS we end up the same.

We have 3 BeyonderS easily blocking/tanking blasts
from infinite Celestials, infinite InfinitieS and infinite EternitieS,

then you have Starbrand Beyonder that can't tank a planet scale boom.

Also, while one of the 3 BeyonderS was able to obliterate Celestials one shot

The Starbrand Beyonder can't kill Thor one shot:

I'm not even gonna mention how universal embodiments were getting fried easily,
yet, Thor's puny hide can take the heat. Come on yall.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Only concentrating on Hickman's BeyonderS we end up the same.

We have 3 BeyonderS easily blocking/tanking blasts
from infinite Celestials, infinite InfinitieS and infinite EternitieS,

then you have Starbrand Beyonder that can't tank a planet scale boom.

Also, while one of the 3 BeyonderS was [b]able to obliterate Celestials one shot

The Starbrand Beyonder can't kill Thor one shot:

[/B]

Originally posted by Galan007
The term "adult units" wasn't used on panel. It's just an easy way to differentiate between the two different types of Beyonders we know of. That being said, the only types of Beyonders that were categorized on panel were 'child units'(which is what the Beyonder from SWII was), and the more powerful regular/adult Beyonders featured in HickmanWars.

Bios from the HickmanWars Handbook:

Here Pym makes the distinction in NA #30:

Here Owen gives us final clarification in NA #33:

But as mentioned previously, that just tells us the adult units are far more powerful than the child units. Absolutely nothing from the source material states that the adult units from HickmanWars have varying levels of power. That is purely you own personal conjecture.

The adult Beyonders who fought the Avengers being referred to as "manifestations" certainly doesn't mean they were weaker by proxy, so I'm not sure why you keep mentioning that like it proves anything..?

So again, if your contention is that the adult units from HickmanWars did vary in power, then the burden falls entirely on you to prove it with some sort of explicit/incontrovertible evidence. You haven't done that yet, and I'm quite confident that you can't, so why are you still arguing the point?

Originally posted by Astner
It was implied, not stated.

"I could tell you about the [b]child unit from the Secret Wars. Visually modified to mimic what it perceived...it crunched a universe to make a toy...but these things crunch universes and are most certainly not playing a game."

It's clear from what's said that the non-child units are operating on a larger scale.

According to the story they were Beyonders.

Because there's no direct evidence, neither explicit nor implicit, to suggest that one is stronger than the other.

The problem is that you're trying to use your observation as evidence for your conjecture. The way it normally work is: you make an observation, you come up with an explanation for it, and then you find separate evidence to bolster your explanation.

The reason for this is because you may reach a hundred different conclusions through that very same observation, but unless there's evidence to back up those conclusions they're completely worthless. [/B]

then we have these monkeys who are still trying to say they were different ivory kings just because they got some low feats.theyre reaching so ****ing hard here. very sad when people cant just accept the truth lmao.

like you guys said- nothing says the adult ivory kings..... any of them.... had different powerlevels. the people still acting like the did are just lying at this point and ignoring the facts lol.

every character gets low feats. the ivory kings are not an exception.deal with it, monkeys.😎

but even if they did have different levels (which they dont) they were ALL still killed by a blast that was waaaaaaaaaaaaay below multiverse level in the end.,period.

Originally posted by zopzop
Wait, Mr. M. I could have sworn the 3 Beyonders the trio of Avengers went up against were the Beyonders that just got through wrecking the entire Marvel cosmic hierarchy? Can anyone confirm or deny this?

the monkeys keep ignoring that. so its best to ignore any of their opinions here

Damn ... you need to hop of my cyber shlong.

Zop wasn't addressing you but you had to jam your repetitive drivel anyhow.

And lmao at labeling members "monkeys"

when you're the only one quoting other people's opinions as your argument.

Monkey see ... Monkey do ... 😆 ... "like YOU guys said" 😂

I mean ... I gotta admit, never seen a troll on this level.

Originally posted by zopzop

Wait, Mr. M. I could have sworn the 3 Beyonders the trio of Avengers went up against
were the Beyonders that just got through wrecking the entire Marvel cosmic hierarchy?

Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Actually, if you're into details .. they were not:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=661449&pagenumber=4

But, if we believe they were the same, ...

then they were holding back vs Thor/Hyperion
(proven right up top when comparing damage assessment between hierarchy and Thor/Hyperion)
or ... they manifested in weaker shells vs Thor/Hyperion.

-------------------------------------------------------------

If none of that is satisfactory ... then it's both PIS & CIS like never seen before.
And for said reason should be dismissed as never happening.

Otherwise in vs forums they have to be presented as:

NA#30 Beyonders vs whoever ... or ... NA#32 Beyonders vs whoever.
Because the discrepancy in the showings is so wide it wouldn't allow us to have a sensible debate.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Damn ... you need to hop of my cyber shlong.

Zop wasn't addressing you but you had to jam your repetitive drivel anyhow.

And lmao at labeling members "monkeys"

[b]when you're the only one quoting other people's opinions as your argument.

Monkey see ... Monkey do ... 😆 ... "like YOU guys said" 😂

I mean ... I gotta admit, never seen a troll on this level.

Hey there brother Zop, a true debater.

Actually, if you're into details .. they were not:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=661449&pagenumber=4

But, if we believe they were the same, ...

then they were holding back vs Thor/Hyperion
(proven right up top when comparing damage assessment between hierarchy and Thor/Hyperion)
or ... they manifested in weaker shells vs Thor/Hyperion.

-------------------------------------------------------------

If none of that is satisfactory ... then it's both PIS & CIS like never seen before.
And for said reason should be dismissed as never happening.

Otherwise in vs forums they have to be presented as:

NA#30 Beyonders vs whoever ... or ... NA#32 Beyonders vs whoever.
Because the discrepancy in the showings is so wide it wouldn't allow us to have a sensible debate. [/B]

pis/cis doesnt matter. the showings still happened and are still canon to ivory kings,.period

this is unreal to me. ivory kings get low feats and a few monkeys are willing to just pretend like they never happened, or pretend like there are two different sets of adult ivory kings even though no proof indicates that the adults vary in power at all.

doesnt work that way people. every character gets high feats and low feats. the ivory kings are not immune to that. 🙄

PIS does indeed matter lol.

Objectively speaking...

The HickmanWars adult unit Beyonders have extremely high showings, and extremely low showings. Nothing in between... No middle ground... No real average to balance things out.

And because the source material does not explicitly indicate that the adult Beyonders who killed the cosmic hierarchy in NA #30 were intended to be more powerful than the adult Beyonders who had trouble with the Avengers in NA #32, who's to say what's PIS for them and what's not... Especially when they only appeared in like 2 or 3 issues total..?

I mean, given the evidence at hand, couldn't I just as easily argue that them killing the hierarchy was the PIS showing? I guess my question is why we would automatically assume the high end stuff is acceptable/valid, and just write the low end stuff off as PIS? In cases where characters have a scant few on-panel appearances, it seems like all of their showing need to count for *something*, imo. /shrug

Again, I'm just trying to be objective here, because the vast discrepancy between their feats makes it really hard gauge the HickmanWars adult Beyonders with any sort of accuracy.

srug

I think they get more slack for high feats depending on the intention of the characters.

If they have high showings, then it makes more sense given that they are meant to be terrible cosmic threats.

If they have low showings, then they may not make as much sense given that they weren't intended to be handled by the likes of regular heroes.

/shrug.

It might not make sense, but it still happened nonetheless.

I'm not trying to invalidate the Beyonders as high-end cosmic threats. I'm just saying that they DO have low-end showings that need to be considered(at least to some extent) in debates involving them. Simply writing off their low showings as PIS and acting like they only have high-end stuff under their belts isn't a luxury afforded to any other character(s) here, and I do agree that the Beyonders shouldn't be an exception in that regard... Especially given their extremely limited number of appearances(all of which were under the same writer, mind you.)

And I wasnt suggesting you were.

Just answering why their low showings aren't taken as seriously as their high showings are.

They are confusing characters to deal with.

👆

Originally posted by abhilegend
Rest my case on what?

https://i.imgur.com/X7nlqjQ.jpg

"I'm the only one who can see the shadow. This gigantic shadow cast across the multiverse . Falling over everything ."

Isn't that Orion falling?

No, it's Darkseid.

True Darkseid is platonic concept who emanate from the world of GOD.
Can Ivory Kings destroy even platonic concept?