The story doesn't even use the term "adult". Pym refers to Secret Wars Beyonder as a child unit and Pym had only encountered the cosmic killers.
And true bias is arguing for some specific powered up Spectre when the OP uses regular/general Spectre. And on the other hand, they use what they use perceived low showing that they can't prove happened.
Then speaking of pathetic:
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-fe79567aa97584c86a63de6d098d4851
Specter gets royally mud stomped.
Originally posted by TheHulksterthe low showings DID happen troll. scans were posted. you lot are just ignoring them because it doesnt fit your predetermined biases lmao
The story doesn't even use the term "adult". Pym refers to Secret Wars Beyonder as a child unit and Pym had only encountered the cosmic killers.And true bias is arguing for some specific powered up Spectre when the OP uses regular/general Spectre. And on the other hand, they use what they use perceived low showing that they can't prove happened.
you can try to ignore those low showings but they DID happen regardless. the ivory kings were pathetic nothings in the end. deal with it 😎
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
the low showings DID happen troll. scans were posted. you lot are just ignoring them because it doesnt fit your predetermined biases lmaoyou can try to ignore those low showings but they DID happen regardless. the ivory kings were pathetic nothings in the end. deal with it 😎
Run from the linked image so e more. We know that is Spectre and not an unknown manifestation.
And stop crying sheez.
Originally posted by Mr MasterThe Ivory Kings that killed the hierarchy then the Marvel Reality embodied, were bad ass.
The Ivory King that got killed by the full power of the Starbrand had shit durability no doubt.
A glass canon, it can create/destroy stars, but can't tank planetary level explosions.
meh, it still single handily beat the shit out of Thor/Hyperion nearly killing them.But to Thor/Hyperion's credit,
it was logically FAR more powerful than the "horde" of Beyonders that came afterward.
Like comparing Galactus to Kraven the Hunter.The Ivory King that got warped into a tree at the cost of Ex nihilii, Abyss and the Gardners lives,
never attacked or defended itself.
It wanted to be a tree. It was bored of being a robot that does nothing.
Now it's a tree ... how beautiful.------------------------------------------------------
The Owen Bomb ... was 100s of thousands of Owens ...
... the Owens were portions of the Beyonders' own powers.
Plot. .......
......... next.
Originally posted by Mr Master
So nothing? Aside from yet again, reiterated ad nauseam incorrectness?------------------------------------------------------
The comic doesn't have to spell it out for anyone with an elementary level education.
Regarding Thor/Hyperion below: (elementary level eg.)
------------------------------------------------------
(Master) "Here's a wall ... and here's a row of walls ... now throw this rock at each of them"
(pupil) "Wow ... the rock bounced off the single wall, but went through 20 rows of walls"
(Master) "Which wall is stronger my son"
(pupil) "Well, the single wall of course master ... are you trying to trick me?"
(Master) "No my son, I once had a student who chose the row of walls"
(pupil) " 😐 "
-----------------------------------------------------
Starbrand, is the only "low showing" the Beyonders have.
Ex nihilii, Abyss and all the Gardners died
itself. 👆
turning the m-body of a Beyonder into a living tree,
a Beyonder, that [b]never attacked or defendedIt must've wanted to be a tree.
-----------------------------------------------------
The Owen Bomb was not "a" bomb, it was 100s of thousands of Owens ...
... the Owens were portions of the Beyonders' own powers.
Ever heard of ... plot?
Anything else? ...yawn [/B]
I think you're missing his point. Do you have something outside the comparative examples of Thor/Hyperion against one to when they faced a bunch that shows they vary in power? If that one example is your only argument, then it's a circular argument that they vary in power.
Originally posted by TheHulkster
The story doesn't even use the term "adult". Pym refers to Secret Wars Beyonder as a child unit and Pym had only encountered the cosmic killers.And true bias is arguing for some specific powered up Spectre when the OP uses regular/general Spectre. And on the other hand, they use what they use perceived low showing that they can't prove happened.
Then speaking of pathetic:
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-fe79567aa97584c86a63de6d098d4851
Specter gets royally mud stomped.
That’s not Jordan’s Spectre though.
no he was obviously using it seriously like the troll he is,. thats why i ignored it.
aside from it not even being the spectre in this thread it also isnt at all the same as thor and hyperion actually raping droves of ivory kings. here there was tangible context given and it was actually said that spectre ALLOWED batman to touch him just to lessen the blow to batmans ego. nothing of the sort was said about the adult ivory kings though
as far we know thor and hyperion legitimately ripped them apart engros, starbrand and exnihilo legitimately wrecked a couple of them, and a blast waaaay below multiverse level legitimately killed every single one of them. as far as we know the 'adult' ivory kings do not vary in power.
they want us to believe the ivory kings who killed the cosmic beings were stronger then the ones who fought the avengers. these are straight up lies that cannot be proven on any level. period
all the other stuff they post is just smoke&mirrors
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
no he was obviously using it seriously like the troll he is,. thats why i ignored it.aside from it not even being the spectre in this thread it also isnt at all the same as thor and hyperion actually raping droves of ivory kings. here there was tangible context given and it was actually said that spectre ALLOWED batman to touch him just to lessen the blow to batmans ego. nothing of the sort was said about the adult ivory kings though
as far we know thor and hyperion legitimately ripped them apart engros, starbrand and exnihilo legitimately wrecked a couple of them, and a blast waaaay below multiverse level legitimately killed every single one of them. as far as we know the 'adult' ivory kings do not vary in power.
they want us to believe the ivory kings who killed the cosmic beings were stronger then the ones who fought the avengers. these are straight up lies that cannot be proven on any level. period
all the other stuff they post is just smoke&mirrors
I don't think he was trolling, I think he was serious.
But unless there's something else to argue that the Ivory Kings varied, it's basically an inverse Imperiex Probe argument. Even carter was arguing Imperiex Probes were too powerful for a tournament's tier, then suddenly arguing that they varied and many weak because of Superman and Doomsday tearing through a bunch. Suddenly they vary in power. Despite it being clearly shown they were mass produced and the same, and when Superman was wrecking them, the writer made it clear they were just as powerful as before, but Superman was on another level. Suddenly they have to vary in power to carter (with others arguing that too). Actually not the only time he's made a similar 180.
I haven't read the storyline so that's why I asked for any other examples, but Master was arguing just on that one example, which is a circular argument. He even argues Starbrand is their only low showing..... which seems contradictory to me given he's arguing the ones who only eventually overwhelmed Thor/Hyperion were less powerful than the one who beat them. The argument that that one turned into a tree is not a low showing also feels straw grasping. Granted I didn't read it, but it sounds like he's trying to argue that not defending himself means it's not a low showing. But he still got turned into a tree. Like Fangirl trying to defend Wonder Woman getting her wrist broken by Superman squeezing it that she "wasn't resisting." Resisting would make her durability higher? I feel it's a similar desperation move to being turned into a tree, unless he literally made himself have weak durability.
👆
ive read these issues a bunch of times. not once is it implied or indicated that the ivory kings who fought the cosmics were more powerful then the ones who fought the avengers,. not once. theres a reason why they havent actually posted any proof from the issues to support their assertion here lol
they are absolutely straw grasping. they only want to accept the ivory kings high feats but ignore or downplay their lows. these people dont understand that it doesnt work like that. you cant have your cake and eat it too.
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
👆ive read these issues a bunch of times. not once is it implied or indicated that the ivory kings who fought the cosmics were more powerful then the ones who fought the avengers,. not once. theres a reason why they havent actually posted any proof from the issues to support their assertion here lol
they are absolutely straw grasping. they only want to accept the ivory kings high feats but ignore or downplay their lows. these people dont understand that it doesnt work like that. you cant have your cake and eat it too.
I figure if all he's arguing is the comparative performances, then that's all he's got. How the group against Thor/Hyperion did against the single one that beat them would be corroborative evidence to something more concrete, but by itself proves nothing. But I try to be fair so I'm giving him the chance to show he's going off more than a circular argument.
And it's one thing if they were arguing the lies hold less importance. Like I said, I haven't read it so don't know how many good showings they had to bad to see what hold ls more weight, but it feels like he's arguing "even though these low showings happened they totally don't count so treat them like they didn't happen."
Originally posted by TheHulkster
He doesn't fake the pain. He just doesn't go ephemeral. Batman doesn't say "I didn't think that I could actually hurt you".
Even if we assume your argument is correct, does that also mean you didn't leave out that Spectre let it happen so Batman could feel better which makes your argument questionable at best, or that it's not even the same Spectre and you left that out too?
Originally posted by TheHulkster
He doesn't fake the pain. He just doesn't go ephemeral. Batman doesn't say "I didn't think that I could actually hurt you".
Wait, how are you proving that he didn't fake the pain lol.
If my 6yr old nephew point his fingers at me and goes bang, I pretend he's shot me...go through all the motions and everything. Might even roll around on the floor before dying*
You're..... literally arguing my nephew shot me for realsies, with his mind bullets.
*spoiler alert; I didn't die
Originally posted by Delta1938this is exactly whats happening here. its insanity
it feels like he's arguing "even though these low showings happened they totally don't count so treat them like they didn't happen."
im not denying that the ivory kings started off with some great feats, but they most definitely ended on a pretty pathetic note.
an ivory king got killed by starbrand
an ivory king got transmuted into inertness by a few exnhilo
thor and hyperion were tearing them apart in droves before they fell
a bomb blast waaaay below multiverse level killed the entire lot of them
and like ive been saying- owen stated that the ivory kings who were attacking the multiverse were the 'adult' versions. he made no distinction between their powers other then the adult ivory kings>the child ivory kings.
there is no proof that the adults who killed the cosmic beings were supposed to be more powerful then the adults who fought the avengers. in the end they were ALL the adult ivory kings,.period.
glad im not the only one who can see through the lies and deception👆
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, that Batkick scan is one of the most incorrectly used scans on the net.Unlesss Hulkster was being super meta and clever, and parodying someone who doesn't know comics?
'I thought it might make you feel better'
👆
Originally posted by -K-M-
Myth: Batman's kick hurt Spectre
Tales of the Unexpected #4
How many times did we hear that Batman hurt the Spectre with the bat-kick? To many to count, but in reality it did nothing and Sprectre even mentions he did it to make Batman feel good about the situation as it was hopeless for him.1. http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd199/MachineMan616/019.jpg
2. http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd199/MachineMan616/020.jpg
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=474929&pagenumber=2
The Beyonders are difficult to gauge with any sort of accuracy.
They have some really high-highs, and some really low-lows. No real grey area for them... No real 'average'. Certainly they housed a massive amount of energy(as evident by the feats Owen and God Doom preformed after killing the entire race and becoming receptacles for their cumulative power), but the Beyonders themselves ultimately left quite a bit to be desired, imo. They should have been able to end all of the Avengers with a finger flick, for example, but that's obviously not what happened for whatever reason...
That being said, I agree that no real difference between 'adult' Beyonders was defined in the source material, therefore we really have no reason to assume the Beyonders in NA #32 were weaker than the Beyonders in NA #30. Both depictions were stated to be the 'adult units', both were stated to be vastly superior to the 'child units', and until we have a legitimate reason to assume otherwise, both should have about the same level of power.
...It certainly wouldn't be the first time that Hickman has inextricably gimped characters, after all.
Originally posted by Galan007The Beyonders are difficult to gauge with any sort of accuracy.
They have some really high-highs, and some really low-lows. No real grey area for them... No real 'average'. Certainly they housed a massive amount of energy(as evident by the feats Owen and God Doom preformed after killing the entire race and becoming receptacles for their cumulative power), but the Beyonders themselves ultimately left quite a bit to be desired, imo. They should have been able to end all of the Avengers with a finger flick, for example, but that's obviously not what happened for whatever reason...
That being said,
I agree that no real difference
between 'adult' Beyonders was defined in the source material,1) therefore we really have no reason to assume the Beyonders in NA #32
were weaker than the Beyonders in NA #30.2) Both depictions were stated to be the 'adult units',
both were stated to be vastly superior to the 'child units',and until we have a legitimate reason to assume otherwise,
both should have about the same level of power.
I agree with all this Galan, save for one detail:
What's in bold (1) and what's underlined. (2)
1) Imo, the reason we can assume the Beyonders is NA#32 were weaker,
is because of the showings.
Forget about the Ex nihilii victim, that Beyonder literally did nothing,
and, since Beyonders are forced to manifest in vulnerable physical shells,
it's no surprise he got warped into a tree
if he's just gonna stand there and allow himself to get warped into a tree.
Which he literally did, lol.
Instead let's just look at the only depiction that could be senseless here, the Starbrand kill.
A weaker manifestation than the hierarchy killing manifestations? Holding back? A glass canon?
Glass canon is my choice. Thor's hammer smashed his face apart,
but he effortlessly reformed and nearly killed them both, easily as well.
This Beyonder said it can "destroy and/or create stars" ...
but then can't withstand the explosion of something at-least a million times+ smaller. (a planet)
You're right, and I agree, this Beyonder could've,
or rather should've been able to hand wave them out of existence,
but I think it was portrayed as enjoying the clinic it was putting on Thor/Hyperion.
Perhaps that's why it did not, it doesn't matter though,
cause it would've definitely kill both Thor/Hyperion if not for the Starbrand interruption
Anyway, the fact that Thor's hammer broke his face to pieces,
is a dead giveaway that at-least in THIS scene, they were housed in vulnerable shells,
and thus it's not astonishing that a planet scale boom could disperse the rest of its body.
BUT ... the fact that it wasn't able to reform like after the hammer face smash,
is the wtf. Perhaps if a sufficient area of their shells is destroyed,
they can't reincorporate into the physical m-body/manifestation while outside their realm.
Thus, they're "essence dies inside the multiverse outside of their shells.
Because they're not supposed to be able to exit their realm
as they really are inside the Beyond Realm. That's why they need m-bodies.
This understanding has been theirs since their inception,
and Hickman followed through via Ex nihilii who reminded us.
This is my theory brother G based on an educated extraction from the material.
You'll notice I'm not imposing my stance as the correct interpretation or notion,
but I think it gives some sense to the contradictions we had to deal with here.
Thoughts old friend?
--------------------------------------------------------------
2) Imo, the legitimate reason to assume otherwise,
is the fact that the "child unit" made an entire universe his plaything, and killed Death,
and he himself embodied an entire separate universe.
And the heroes?
Well, specifically Thor. Child Unit with a thought increased Kurse's strength,
and Kurse nearly killed Thor.
The child unit tanked unbelievable attacks, wouldn't even had noticed Thor,
NA#32 Beyonder can't tank a planetary hit,
can't even tank Thor's hammer. 😐 (it had to reform its broken face)
So there it is. This is the comparative difference that is quite clear. Imo.
Originally posted by Galan007
..
It certainly wouldn't be the first time that Hickman has inextricably gimped characters, after all.
They were simply gimped.
