Originally posted by -Pr-
I haven't heard that excuse in years.I mean, sure, some people that didn't like them didn't understand them, but far too many people used the "you just don't understand it!" excuse to try and dismiss any criticism at all. And a lot of that criticism was valid.
To be fair, how many actually understood the Architect's speech the first time they saw the scene? At that point it was just when the writing became so pretentious and trying to sound deep that most couldn't make out what Matrix Colonel Sanders was saying at first.
Originally posted by -Pr-
I haven't heard that excuse in years.I mean, sure, some people that didn't like them didn't understand them, but far too many people used the "you just don't understand it!" excuse to try and dismiss any criticism at all. And a lot of that criticism was valid.
There are plenty of criticisms that I actually agree with, but they're largely superficial. I think that's why the Wachoskis had two different sets of commentary tracks on the DVDs. They had a "critic" commentary and an intellectual "philosopher" commentary. You know, take your pick: superficiality or philosophy.
Nice use of “White Rabbit”.
A little on the nose but sometimes things just are.
Ah, NPH how I’ve missed you.
And Keanu being Keanu. It’s hard to resist Keanu when he’s being Keanu.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
How is my Pr doing today?
Shite.
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Most who didn't like the sequels only saw them once or so and thus don't remember them much or let alone what all they didn't like about them to begin with. That much is true, though doesn't invalidate all criticism.To be fair, how many actually understood the Architect's speech the first time they saw the scene? At that point it was just when the writing became so pretentious and trying to sound deep that most couldn't make out what Matrix Colonel Sanders was saying at first.
The architect's speech if said in plainer English would actually make things far more clear, instead of coming across like a load of bollocks because someone went through a thesaurus and swapped out every second word for the longest one they could find that technically meant the same thing.
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
There are plenty of criticisms that I actually agree with, but they're largely superficial. I think that's why the Wachoskis had two different sets of commentary tracks on the DVDs. They had a "critic" commentary and an intellectual "philosopher" commentary. You know, take your pick: superficiality or philosophy.
A wonky script isn't what I would call superficial, personally.
I mean, there is a lot to like about the sequels. I think Revolutions has more problems than Reloaded, but it's mostly fine.
The main issue I have is that while I think the underlying philosophy of the story they were trying to tell is sound and makes sense, it isn't well adapted to the screen. Whether that's an issue in editing or screenwriting or both, it's still needlessly convoluted.
Well I would argue that the story they wanted to tell was inherently a little "wonky."
Also, unfortunately the sequels were dealt kind of unfair blows with Tank getting a big ego and not returning and the actress playing the Oracle dying, etc. That made for some unnecessary convoluted character drama. Also I think many people were probably too lazy to understand the Architect's pretentiousness. Which is honestly somewhat understandable. Heh. But yeah, just the juicy pulp sci-fi premise was so cool it made up for all that to me. Maybe they went a little heavy-handed on the One with the Messiah complex, but that was kind of the point and gave the multiple incarnations more of a devastating punch. Morpheus's dogma of the Prophecy came crashing down, etc. It's brilliant writing with a great character arc. And you have to have the sequels to get that big picture. You don't get it with just the first film.
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Well I would argue that the story they wanted to tell was inherently a little "wonky."Also, unfortunately the sequels were dealt kind of unfair blows with Tank getting a big ego and not returning and the actress playing the Oracle dying, etc. That made for some unnecessary convoluted character drama. Also I think many people were probably too lazy to understand the Architect's pretentiousness. Which is honestly somewhat understandable. Heh. But yeah, just the juicy pulp sci-fi premise was so cool it made up for all that to me. Maybe they went a little heavy-handed on the One with the Messiah complex, but that was kind of the point and gave the multiple incarnations more of a devastating punch. Morpheus's dogma of the Prophecy came crashing down, etc. It's brilliant writing with a great character arc. And you have to have the sequels to get that big picture. You don't get it with just the first film.
I would mostly agree, but at the same time I hope you're not suggesting that the sequels are better than the first one.
Honestly though, for all the wonkiness, I will say that when a cutscene at the end of a tie-in game that **** all people played did a better job of explaining the end of your movie than the movie itself did, you ****ed up somewhere.
https://twitter.com/clintworthing/status/1435968123128238082
I never played the games but food for thought. lol
Originally posted by -Pr-
Honestly though, for all the wonkiness, I will say that when a cutscene at the end of a tie-in game that **** all people played did a better job of explaining the end of your movie than the movie itself did, you ****ed up somewhere.
I only played some of Enter The Matrix back in the day and barely remember it. So I don't know to what you're referring.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I realize I'm in the minority, but I never despised the Matrix sequels.Looking forward to Resurrections.
I just hope they aren't really retconning Reloaded and Revolutions (see below).
I can see why WB might market it with less emphasis on the sequels, but if the WachoWskis actually retcon their own work that's majorly selling out their creativity and would be quite sad.
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
I just hope they aren't really retconning Reloaded and Revolutions (see below).I can see why WB might market it with less emphasis on the sequels, but if the WachoWskis actually retcon their own work that's majorly selling out their creativity and would be quite sad.
Looking at the trailer, I wonder if they are proceeding as if the Matrix sequels didn't exist. Which, for some fans, would be preferable, but still...
These guys started stumbling ever since they did the sequels, But after a number of films that have bombed harder with each release date (Speed Racer, Cloud Atlas, Jupiter Ascending) this feels like a last ditch effort to stay in the movie business.