Upside Down Man vs TOBA Hulk

Originally posted by xJLxKing
That’s nothing to do with Eclipso though

Hecate’s opposite is upside down man. That’s her mirror which is why in the scan, the USDM is her reflecting..her mirror

And then Eclipso was created, and he was created to be more powerful than Hecate. You seem to be stuck on the first panel.

It doesn’t make sense

Circe with half of Hecates power is going to go and control Ecliposo power?

We have to see how it unfolds. However it doesn't change what was written in terms of power levels. It stated earlier in last month's JLD that the Black Diamond alone could rip reality apart.

Originally posted by Stoic
However it doesn't change what was written in terms of power levels. It stated earlier in last month's JLD that the Black Diamond alone could rip reality apart.

Originally posted by Stoic
Did it state that it was an alternate future? I see it as a possible future for 616, which mean that it will be the 616 Galactus, Franklin, and every other being within the 616 reality. If it did not make mention of another timeline it is the same reality as the current timeline that the Immortal Hulk is from. We are seeing the progressoon take place in every IH book, we even got a glimpse of the Devil Hulk in last months issue. Not sure why you're drawing these conclusions?

Originally posted by zopzop
Which makes sense since Eclipso had Spectre's role in creation before Spectre was even made.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
You could say the same about Marvel Zombies. Or AoA, or AoU etc they're still not canon.

Where are you getting your info from? TOBA Hulk is 616 Immortal Hulk in the future. Do you have any citations proving your claim?

Do you even Marvel?

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Do you even Marvel?

Ok so no proof. Got it.

Originally posted by Stoic
Ok so no proof. Got it.

Stoic is very slow, I think he needs help from us

Originally posted by Stoic
Did it state that it was an alternate future? I see it as a possible future for 616, which mean that it will be the 616 Galactus, Franklin, and every other being within the 616 reality. If it did not make mention of another timeline it is the same reality as the current timeline that the Immortal Hulk is from. We are seeing the progressoon take place in every IH book, we even got a glimpse of the Devil Hulk in last months issue. Not sure why you're drawing these conclusions?

But then we have another comic with the same 'end' which is different, which makes no mention of another timeline.

Originally posted by Galan007
He's disputing the fact that it's an alternate future... Even though it very clearly IS. That's how Marvel cosmology is laid out: future events = alternate events by default.

And to further drive that point home: right now, in current publication, we have witnessed two completely different renditions of Marvel's 'end', in two completely different titles: "Immortal Hulk", and "History of the Marvel Universe".

In the IH issues, [TOBA] Hulk is the last being remaining at the end of all things, and he had already killed Franklin Richards and Galactus billionS of years prior:

Yet in HotMU, it is Franklin and Galactus who are the final beings remaining at the end of all things, and will usher in the next cosmos:

IOW, even current Marvel is giving us two completely different takes on how the existing creation ends... So which 'end of all things' do we go by? Or should we do the more logical thing and assume they are both taking place in alternate futures(which, as I said, is already an established concept in Marvel)..?

Originally posted by Galan007
It's basically a What If that's showing us what happens in 'x' alternate timeline when Hulk reigns supreme at the end of things. Could the Franklin in that timeline be just as powerful as he is in mainstream 616? Absolutely. Is there any way to know for sure? Not really(unless it's clarified in subsequent issues or w/e.)

srug

Galan already posted what I've been trying to say all this while.

Originally posted by Diesldude
In one of the future timelines, it was mentioned that Franklin and Galactus were going to be the last 2 left. In this version of the future TOBA is the last being. Which is the main stream version?

More than that, Mr Immortal also outlived Franklin and Galactus in the 9th Cosmos future.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Galan already posted what I've been trying to say all this while.

Galan thank you for clearing up the haze. But as noted an alt. future doesn't mean alt. reality universe. He was still standing on 616 soil. That was something that needed to be cleared up in order to avoid invalidation.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But then we have another comic with the same 'end' which is different, which makes no mention of another timeline.

Galan already posted what I've been trying to say all this while.

I was a little confused on how Marvel futures technically worked, This was somthing that needed to be explained to me. However, people often play fast and loose with anything tagged with the Alternate moniker. In this case TOBA Hulk belongs to an alternate future of Earth 616 , not an alternate dimension or even alternate Earth described by its number. For example, TOBA Hulk is from Earth 616, and not Earth 12913. An alternate Earth aside from Earth 616 would present continuity discrepancies kind of like comparing Earth 616 Norrin Radd to the Exiles Norrin Radd.

I just wanted to be clear on the implications in order to shed light on what happened off panel. I'm imagining TOBA Hulk defeating legitimate versions of some pretty powerful characters. My main point? To avoid a misunderstanding that could lead to any notion serving to invalidate TOBA Hulk's power level.

A alternative is just another way to say what if

Not as cut and dry as that. There are alternate futures with the same past, and alternate futures with completely different pasts.

Stoic who do you think wins?

TOBA Hulk probably eats him, but not sure if the Upside Down Man would cease to exist?