Perpetua vs. Doctor Manhattan

VS

Perpetua with the full totality. Manhattan living up to all his hype in Doomsday clock.

What do you guys think?

This is a fukin tough one, great great fight

I honestly go with Perpetua

Tough one

I’d say Manhattan but need to wait till both arcs end

I'd also go with Manhattan right now, mainly because even Mxy himself outright stated that he was operating on levels that were far above his own abilities.

Time will tell, though.

Manhattan.

Originally posted by Galan007
I'd also go with Manhattan right now, mainly because even Mxy himself outright stated that he was operating on levels that were far above his own abilities.

Time will tell, though.

Lex also says in DD Clock that Manhattan is the most powerful being he has ever encountered.

True. 👆

And even if we assume Doomsday Clock is set before Lex had working knowledge of Perpetua, his statement still affirms that Manhattan is intended to be > Mxy(among many, many others.)

Do Manhattan”s feats measure up to Perpetua”s?

^ Only the statements, by far.

Well, I”m not sure why people are hyping up Mxy calling Manhattan more powerful than himself, but not Mxy calling the Brothers Three and Perpetua more powerful than himself.

Because he never said they were more powerful than himself. We've been over this before...

Yeah going by mxy statements I don't think there's anyone in comic book history apart from supreme beings of the companies (TOAA, Precense, Overvoid etc) that can challenge Doctor Manhattan

I'm very interested to see the last issue of Doomsday Clock, Hopefully superman doesn't beat him in direct combat because this will inadvertently result in lowballing of doctor manhattan and cause another shitstorm

Based on DM powerset I don’t know who could take him out. As long as the Quantum Field exists, he exists, basically he’s the consciousness of it. If you destroy that you basically destroy everything.

Originally posted by MrMind
Yeah going by mxy statements I don't think there's anyone in comic book history apart from supreme beings of the companies (TOAA, Precense, Overvoid etc) that can challenge Doctor Manhattan

I'm very interested to see the last issue of Doomsday Clock, Hopefully superman doesn't beat him in direct combat because this will inadvertently result in lowballing of doctor manhattan and cause another shitstorm

...Cuz the whole of DC < Mxy < Manhattan < Superman = herald-level, you see.

Originally posted by Galan007
If Superman beats Manhattan(even if he dies in the process), the 'other side' will then try to argue that a single herald-level being can stomp all of DC.

...Cuz the whole of DC < Mxy < Manhattan < Superman = herald-level, you see.

Superman is the foundation of DC. When a being who can travel between two different multiverse can’t alter the core of Superman, it should establish what/who superman is

Anyways, haters just always gonna hate

If you do a line by line analysis, it is clear that is what Mxy is saying.

https://www.newsarama.com/44160-snyder-and-mxyzptlk-take-justice-league-to-the-sixth-dimension.html

-the scan with Perpetua and the Monitors

Behold! The Multiverse as you live it, puny heads, exists in four dimensions...Now add imagination, which exists outside of time, and...Poof! Ta-da! It”s everything at once, existing backward and forward, simultaneously. Imagination is the blood of the Multiverse, the energy that flows between the realms...Until you, nitwits, broke the Source Wall...

Here, Mxy is showing Morrison’s map of the DC Multiverse and explaining how the 5th dimension exists within DC as “the Blood of the Multiverse,” I.e. it is present on the Map as the Bleed. This is supported by Mxy’s statement that the integrity of the source wall has an immense effect on the 5th dimension/Mxy, as its destruction has been causing imagination to run wild/die.

But there”s a Sixth Realm, at the very tip-top of everything...The best way to describe it to you insectellectuals is, it”s like...the Multiverse’s control room. A realm for things beyond the imagination of all living beings. A realm of the impossible. Where the Multiverse was designed and set in motion. closed off to all but the most powerful few beings...There are only four beings I know of who could exist there before this moment: The Brothers Three, The Monitor, The Anti-Monitor, The World Forger and...the one who started it all...Perpetua.

Mxy says there is a sixth realm, and it is stated here and repeatedly throughout the current JL run how the sixth dimension is beyond imagination, and as Mxy describes it, the control room of the Multiverse, which again, Mxy says the 5th dimension is part of. This is further supported by the fact that the Monitors/Perpetua wield the Dimensional Superstructure, which is stated to “govern all things imaginable and unimaginable.” Mxy also very clearly says that only “the most powerful few beings” could exist in the Sixth Dimension before that moment, which he specifically narrows down to the Brothers Three and Perpetua. Mxy proceeds to say that the happenings of the Sixth Dimension are beyond his perception, and that he could only create a portal to the Sixth Dimension because the Source Wall was broken.

Essentially, Mxy is outright saying “I am not one of the most powerful few beings, but the Brothers Three and Perpetua are”

Just because some of the most powerful beings operate in the multiversal control room

doesn't mean that all of the most powerful beings need to be from the multiversal control room

Originally posted by MrMind
Just because some of the most powerful beings operate in the multiversal control room

doesn't mean that all of the most powerful beings need to be from the multiversal control room

That”s not what Mxy said. Mxy said two things:

1. The Sixth Dimension prior to the destruction of the Source Wall was closed off to all but the most powerful few beings.

2. The only beings that could exist in the Sixth Dimension prior to the destruction of the source wall were the Brothers Three and Perpetua.

The conclusion we can draw from these two premises is that Perpetua and the Brothers Three are “the most powerful few beings” in DC according to Mxy.

Like I said: never once does Mxy outright state that Perpetua and/or her children are more powerful than himself.

Their ability to access the 6th dimension more freely than Mxy certainly doesn't mean they are more powerful than him by default... Mxy's dealt with higher-dimensional beings just fine in the past(like Ultimator and The A, for example.)

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
That”s not what Mxy said. Mxy said two things:

1. The Sixth Dimension prior to the destruction of the Source Wall was closed off to all but the most powerful few beings.

2. The only beings that could exist in the Sixth Dimension prior to the destruction of the source wall were the Brothers Three and Perpetua.

The conclusion we can draw from these two premises is that Perpetua and the Brothers Three are “the most powerful few beings” in DC according to Mxy.

SOME of the most powerful beings, you are reading way too much into this

even if we disregard dc history, from the JL storyline alone we know

there are many super celestials just like perpetua out there creating multiverses

then there are the judges of the source