Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Punisher had numerous sidekicks, wannabes and 2 Punisher chicks.And even people like Steve Rogers actually shut up when they realize Frank is right.
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Totally unlike Gotham.
Not sure if you missed my point lol.
The point being, whether the hero in question kills a criminal or not, the crime rate is still sky high - so what's the use of killing?
Not to mention, Frank has backup in the form of every other major superhero in Marvel ALSO hanging out in NYC. Batman has the Batfamily....
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Well I read some of the following replies, I agree that Batman is by far more competent overall but that's due to Batman's superior tech and intellect, Punisher's mindset of permenently taking out the threat is better, especially in a simple black and white comic world.
Not sure if you missed my point lol.The point being, whether the hero in question kills a criminal or not, the crime rate is still sky high - so what's the use of killing?
Not to mention, Frank has backup in the form of every other major superhero in Marvel ALSO hanging out in NYC. Batman has the Batfamily....
Also using the fact that there are always villains even though there are tons of heroes ignoring that this is for the simple reason that heroes need villains to fight? And then actually go and saying the fact that Batman's villains break out is due to plot? Really?
This argument here is really shitty tbh:
Originally posted by DarkSaint85First of all you might not get mugged on wed because the guy doing it might be dead already and even if not then you still have the fact that the guy from monday won't mug anyone else ever again.
If you get mugged on Monday, the Punisher shoots him dead on Tuesday, then you get mugged by a different person on Wed....who cares that it's a different mugger, you still got mugged.
I also really dislike some of those classic "don't kill" Batman quotes like "If you kill a Killer, the amount of killers stays the same" shit like this is only true for 1 particular moment, the moment our good guy kills more killers, the amount of killers drops and even more important the amount of (by our standards innocent) victims also drops, all it does is to reduce the amount of scum that's wasting precious resources.
Imagine Batman doing his usual work but ultimately when he tracked down the big fish, he permanently takes him out. You can't argue that the "final blow" is more effective than locking them up to wait for their next escape, and again we're talking about comic worlds where morals are a lot more simple and black and white AND people that get locked up break out almost immediately.
Also The Spectre (and probably others) is resident in Gotham if I made a thread of Marvel'S NYC heroes vs. The Spectre who would come out on top? Plus Gotham overall doesn't have the powerlevel of villains that usually attack NYC. This is a bit of comparing apples with pears.
Ok well, a couple of rebuttals:
1. The argument is that the vacuum of villains will always be filled due to plot - kill monsters, and new ones will always take their place. Alberto's argument was that this was due to plot.
My counter was that Batman, who has access to and actually uses tech and expertise from the literal God of escapology, has access to New God, Kryptonian, Martian, Apokoliptian, Thanagarian etc tech, and actually uses them in prison design, yet still has supervillains break out, is ALSO due to plot. We have the Riddler, for example, hacking New God motherbox tech on the fly when he broke out of Arkham.
2. Ok, mugging was perhaps an extreme example - let's use murder. Your relative gets caught up in a crossfire and dies on Monday. Frank tracks their killer down, and puts them down. Does that mean all your other relatives are 100% safe? No. Do drug dealers suddenly reform? No. What good is Punishers executions, when it doesn't stop murders and drug dealers? As far as YOU'RE concerned, your chances of losing a relative to drugs or crossfires hasn't decreased, because NYC still has crime - it's just that the SPECIFIC dealer or Murderer is gone.
But your chances of losing them hasn't gone.
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Yeah no.Look at it this way.
Batman beats joker to near death
Joker heals,schemes, is free to kill again.
Now, punisher finds out about joker.
He finds joker, puts a bullet in his head,walks off. No. More. Joker.
That's not worked out at all for the mobsters Frank kills.
Mobster A sells drugs to kiddies
Kids get addicted
Frank shoots Mobster A.
Mobster B gets hired instead
Mobster B sells drugs to kiddies.
Kids get addicted.
Who. Cares. That. Mobster. A. Is. Dead?
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
lol what? YOU know how many times the same dudes always come back WAY MORE than Punisher villain's due to Bruce being soft and incompetent??
Please don't make me point out how many flaws Gotham has
The mafia problem AND supervillain problem has NEVER gone away from NYC, despite his killing.
Don't misunderstand me, I am NOT saying the mobsters come back to life, lol. I'm saying someone always steps back in, crime is never removed from NYC even with Frank killing.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Apparently, Frank's solution is better because it's permanent.Meanwhile, the Maggia etc still run rampant in NYC.
Ima be honest; I don't know who has the better method. I refuse to believe, though, that Batman is some kind of giant ******* for not murdering people.
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
elaborate more on this. not understanding your point
I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around how much hate Batman is getting for being unwilling to murder people. You yourself called him incompetent.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Ima be honest; I don't know who has the better method. I refuse to believe, though, that Batman is some kind of giant ******* for not murdering people.I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around how much hate Batman is getting for being unwilling to murder people. You yourself called him incompetent.
You know Gotham has the highest crime rate in Dc? right?