Santa Claus vs Superman

Oh my.

Originally posted by lawest9
I did look up the disease anyway, very ugly and nasty thing to have and I vaguely remember reading about the disease somewhere many years ago, but why do you contribute the disease as something that God himself created, over the centuries certain diseases have actually been contributed to demonic forces.

I remember looking at a religious program once where a man was giving a testimony of healing and telling his story behind it, he spoke of a agonizing pain in his shoulder that he had to get emergency hospital care for, while sitting on the hospital bed he said a person came into his room ( likely medical staff ) and that this person obviously had the ability to see things that most of us can't ( thank God ) and that person described to him that he saw a miniature demonic figure sitting on his hurting shoulder with long sharp claws that was dugged deep into his shoulder, scary to think about, eh?

So if you want to take that viewpoint it still doesn't answer why God did nothing about it since he obviously knew trillions of years before it happened that Teratoma would exist. But still did nothing to stop it.

Maybe it was an invisible and very angry Budgie.

Jokes aside its not realistic. Either the whole laws of physics change in your favour or you've made a mistake. I'm betting you have never seen anything supernatural yourself.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh my.

Smeagol has come into the real world.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
So if you want to take that viewpoint it still doesn't answer why God did nothing about it since he obviously knew trillions of years before it happened that Teratoma would exist. But still did nothing to stop it.

Maybe it was an invisible and very angry Budgie.

Jokes aside its not realistic. Either the whole laws of physics change in your favour or you've made a mistake. I'm betting you have never seen anything supernatural yourself.

Smeagol has come into the real world.

As for God allowing the disease to come into existence..........he allowed many diseases to come into the world such as cancer, diabetes, mental illness, just to name a few of many, you should also bare in mind that disease like many things are a direct result of sin that came into the earth via the disobedience of our fore parents Adam and Eve, these things have been preordained before the foundation of the world, but also.........the ultimate cure, salvation and living forever with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by lawest9
You may well lose that bet, I've definitely experienced the supernatural as far as God filling me with his spirit and my speaking with other tongues as the spirit gave the utterance and I'm "betting" that you have never experienced that, so correct me if I'm wrong.

As for God allowing the disease to come into existence..........he allowed many diseases to come into the world such as cancer, diabetes, mental illness, just to name a few of many, you should also bare in mind that disease like many things are a direct result of sin that came into the earth via the disobedience of our fore parents Adam and Eve, these things have been preordained before the foundation of the world, but also.........the ultimate cure, salvation and living forever with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Could you elaborate a bit more on the "filling me with his spirit". Do you mean that you felta sudden sense of joy? And for when it comes to speaking tongues to me this never seems like a lot of proof. For one I it's meant to be a language unidentifiable to the speaker. So you can just be in the peak of an ecstatic moment and you just start muttering releasing a sort of word salad and because it happens in a church where people can be overcome by the atmosphere. It's interpreted as being some sort of godly terrain.

And you aagain might be missing the point of my question, you believe the diseases came into the world because of sin (because of the actions of one person which shouldn't affect everyone else should it really). So lets presume they did. God knew Adam and Eve would sin before it ever happened. So he also must've known all the diseases that we now live with were going to be brought into the world.

So you are saying in affect he knew that Adam and Eve would sin and that would cause cancer etc and he still did nothing about it? It's either he willingly let cancers develop with infinite years of precognition deliberately or he wasn't aware that was going to happen (thereby he would not be a supreme being).

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
So Jesus was born before the Hittite Empire started (1600 BCE)

And the Roman Empire (753 BCE)?

That's why I say people saying the end times are coming are not getting it right as nobody knows. It's become a pithy thing to say but by your books own admission nobody knows.

👆

Plenty of Gods have died for the good of another people. It's not exclusive to Christianity. Prometheus is one good example. Almost like Plagarism.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Could you elaborate a bit more on the "filling me with his spirit". Do you mean that you felta sudden sense of joy? And for when it comes to speaking tongues to me this never seems like a lot of proof. For one I it's meant to be a language unidentifiable to the speaker. So you can just be in the peak of an ecstatic moment and you just start muttering releasing a sort of word salad and because it happens in a church where people can be overcome by the atmosphere. It's interpreted as being some sort of godly terrain.

And you aagain might be missing the point of my question, you believe the diseases came into the world because of sin (because of the actions of one person which shouldn't affect everyone else should it really). So lets presume they did. God [b]knew Adam and Eve would sin before it ever happened. So he also must've known all the diseases that we now live with were going to be brought into the world.

So you are saying in affect he knew that Adam and Eve would sin and that would cause cancer etc and he still did nothing about it? It's either he willingly let cancers develop with infinite years of precognition deliberately or he wasn't aware that was going to happen (thereby he would not be a supreme being). [/B]

Ephesians 1:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

True that this pertain to people preordained for salvation in Christ Jesus, but through the fall of man in the garden a lot of other things csme into play as a result of this including diseases, and so my question to you would be why do you question God's will snd omnipotence for allowing these things to be?........God asked in his Word can any man counsel him?

My suggestion to you would be to seek God for your answers through prayer.

Originally posted by JBL
Yes Jesus was here before all of that. Answer this question.. Who raised Jesus from the dead?

I don't believe he was he going by the fact he was born in or around 6BC. In answer to your question no one because I don't believe in magic or some otherworldly power being able to twist the laws of physics.

Originally posted by lawest9
You have sn odd take on things my friend, and I hope that I'm wrong but you seem to be caught up in your endless quest of why God has allowed certain things to come into play, I hope that you will eventually find peace, pethsps the following scripture below will you somewhat

Ephesians 1:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

True that this pertain to people preordained for salvation in Christ Jesus, but through the fall of man in the garden a lot of other things csme into play as a result of this including diseases, and so my question to you would be why do you question God's will snd omnipotence for allowing these things to be?........God asked in his Word can any man counsel him?

My suggestion to you would be to seek God for your answers through prayer.

You still haven't answered the question though, so do you believe that God let all these diseases exist in advance because he knows what shall happen in the past, present and the future?

My point being if he is omnipotent then he knew trillions of years before it happened and decided to condemn millions of people to death. Or he isn't omnipotent and was unable to stop these things happening.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
You still haven't answered the question though, so do you believe that God let all these diseases exist in advance because he knows what shall happen in the past, present and the future?

My point being if he is omnipotent then he knew trillions of years before it happened and decided to condemn millions of people to death. Or he isn't omnipotent and was unable to stop these things happening.

He would also question earthquakes and fires. Disease just happened to be an example that came to mind.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
I don't believe he was he going by the fact he was born in or around 6BC. In answer to your question no one because I don't believe in magic or some otherworldly power being able to twist the laws of physics.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
I don't believe he was he going by the fact he was born in or around 6BC. In answer to your question no one because I don't believe in magic or some otherworldly power being able to twist the laws of physics.

Originally posted by lawest9
I understood your question well, but without meaning to insult you, your mind seems to be trapped in an on going circular loop on your questions, so I'll make one final attempt here with you, why limit your question to diseases, why not ask why he also allows war, hunger and starvation, fires, floods , tornadoes and hurricanes, etc that kills destroys property and displaces people in general, I don't have the answers to your question, only God know all things, again seek him out for it.

There is a circular loop because you can't answer the question. This is the next deflection (what about other things).

If you answer yes then you are admitting to worshipping a creator that knows and sits back knowing that millions of people will die in indescribable pain because of 2 people in a far flung future that will commit a crime because of one of his angels that doesn't exist yet.

And if you say no then you are admitting that God didn't know and so he isn't all-knowing. So it's quite simple,

Did god know in advance of trillions of years that millions and millions of people would die from cancer?

Woah, this conversation sounds super deep, I'm almost afraid to go back and find out what we are talking about.

And for squall, I can't quote but I totally catch what your dropping now

Originally posted by JBL
In other words, you believe man when he say we evolved from monkeys yet there are still monkeys and we all of a sudden stopped evolving? The big bang theory huh? Was man back there to see it happen. Man also created a machine to tell if someone is lying or not, and people believe it, yet no one has every been convicted on a lie detector. All of this just happened because of an explosion right? The sun was in a perfect place, the earth was in the perfect place, water appeared and we knew to drink it to live. Oxygen was somehow perfect for us to breathe. Gravity just happened to keep us from flying off into space. Man did all that right?

Originally posted by JBL
In other words, you believe man when he say we evolved from monkeys yet there are still monkeys and we all of a sudden stopped evolving? The big bang theory huh? Was man back there to see it happen. Man also created a machine to tell if someone is lying or not, and people believe it, yet no one has every been convicted on a lie detector. All of this just happened because of an explosion right? The sun was in a perfect place, the earth was in the perfect place, water appeared and we knew to drink it to live. Oxygen was somehow perfect for us to breathe. Gravity just happened to keep us from flying off into space. Man did all that right?

There's multiple things wrong here. One you appear to be implying that there is only ever one strain of "monkeys". Maybe you can explain Denisovans then.

Okay then so, is God letting this perfectly designed Sun become a Supernova in a few billion years so that a future species of human will be extinct.

And how do you know we've stopped evolving. Do you think Evolution is like in Jumanji where the kid changes into a monkey within seconds?

So you're implying that I think man made a gravity machine that makes gravity work?

And oxygen isn't perfect for us to breathe by the way.

Originally posted by lawest9
Then if you don't believe that God has raised Jesus from the dead, then you are obviously an atheist ( which is your business ) and why constantly peddle these questions to those of us who believe, if you are strictly about the laws of physics, then why not seek your answers from among scientist and college professors for example.

Why does that beget that I am an atheist? I could be a Hindu, a Jain, a Taoist. What is it with the us vs them mentality. This is again another avoidance of the question. "Don't question us question physics".

I personally don't believe in God's that we pray to and I think the Christian and Muslim God in particular sound far more hateful than than loving, so I would not worship them even if they were proven real.

But I agree with JBL, an explosion did not make all of this. No ****ing way. And where did the stuff come from to begin with? Makes no sense.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
I personally don't believe in God's that we pray to and I think the Christian and Muslim God in particular sound far more hateful than than loving, so I would not worship them even if they were proven real.

But I agree with JBL, an explosion did not make all of this. No ****ing way. And where did the stuff come from to begin with? Makes no sense.

I'm all for discussion about that. He just presumes I am some hypophetical atheist who believes these rigid ideas that he perceives as being what he doesn't believe. He hasn't even asked me what I think about the big bang. If he asks me I'll answer.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
There is a circular loop because you can't answer the question. This is the next deflection (what about other things).

If you answer yes then you are admitting to worshipping a creator that knows and sits back knowing that millions of people will die in indescribable pain because of 2 people in a far flung future that will commit a crime because of one of his angels that doesn't exist yet.

And if you say no then you are admitting that God didn't know and so he isn't all-knowing. So it's quite simple,

Did god know in advance of trillions of years that millions and millions of people would die from cancer?

Originally posted by lawest9
Actually I doubt if anyone can give you the answers you are alledgedly seeking, becsuse they are near mindless in nature, as I've said before, only God knows all things and only he knows why he allows all things to happen, you have really set up your own answers when you present what others believe or don't believe bssed off of rather they answer you by 'yes or no', this is a useless conversation that I'll withdraw myself from.

So you can't answer the question that would either damn your God or diminish his power. So you give up. Thansk for the discussion either way. Iwasn't being hostile in any way, I just like discussing this stuff.