Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's later, and a completely different argument.My point is that Pandora being 133.45 Hercs ISN'T just taking his max strength feats, and multiply by 133.45. Because it is measuring MYSTICAL energy given off, NOT kinetic or physical energy.
But it still flows with the contiguous process, or intent that the author set in motion. What you are doing is cherry picking, or taking a piece of the story, while willfully attempting to ignore the rest. You can't say "but that was later", because that in fact becomes you unwarrantly ignoring context. I.E, Herc's punching power, Wendigo and Bi-Beast X 1000, Baba Yaga at 1.3 Herc's, and the Hulk himself when measured in Hercs, etc.
Originally posted by Stoic
But it still flows with the contiguous process, or intent that the author set in motion. What you are doing is cherry picking, or taking a piece of the story, while willfully attempting to ignore the rest. You can't say "but that was later", because that in fact becomes you unwarrantly ignoring context. I.E, Herc's punching power, Wendigo and Bi-Beast X 1000, Baba Yaga at 1.3 Herc's, and the Hulk himself when measured in Hercs, etc.
My scans are also from the Hotm storyline. Will be happy to explain what my point is, but if you want, tell me what YOU think I'm trying to (unsuccessfully?) Argue.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Sorry, I don't think you understand what my point is.My scans are also from the Hotm storyline. Will be happy to explain what my point is, but if you want, tell me what YOU think I'm trying to (unsuccessfully?) Argue.
Not how it works. You have to be all inclusive. It isn't that you are on the wrong path, it's that you didn't include the rest of the author's intent, which would invalidate the full purpose behind the Herc metric. In other words you left out key points that if ignored would evolve into something that ran against author intent.
My point is that Pak intended to show how mystical items were ra ked against the mystical energy Hercules radiated. That was his intent.
It doesn't invalidate the showing, or his intent. It DOES invalidate Carver's point - that it was a physical showing where we can scale off Hercs physical showings.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Would you want to give a ruling? We both make one post summarising our positions?
Honestly no. Even if someone wants to argue that The Hulk can be 133 times stronger than Hercules, I don't see it as being any different from the times, say, Superman gets a boost or stops holding back and leaves all his supposed peers in the dust. Or Batman beats up a herald. Or Wolverine cuts a supposedly far-more powerful character.
If Carver is wrong, he's wrong, but if he's right, I don't see why that would cause any kind of major shift in Hulk's reputation/placement on the forum.
Originally posted by carver9
Nope, not what I'm doing. Dark doesnt make sense so he is being ignored.
Could've fooled me.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Honestly no. Even if someone wants to argue that The Hulk can be 133 times stronger than Hercules, I don't see it as being any different from the times, say, Superman gets a boost or stops holding back and leaves all his supposed peers in the dust. Or Batman beats up a herald. Or Wolverine cuts a supposedly far-more powerful character.If Carver is wrong, he's wrong, but if he's right, I don't see why that would cause any kind of major shift in Hulk's reputation/placement on the forum.
Could've fooled me.
Fair enough - my point is that it's NOT a physical showing, and a Herc is a measure of mystical energy. Therefore, one cannot scale off Herc's physical feats and multiply by 133.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
My point is that Pak intended to show how mystical items were ra ked against the mystical energy Hercules radiated. That was his intent.It doesn't invalidate the showing, or his intent. It DOES invalidate Carver's point - that it was a physical showing where we can scale off Hercs physical showings.
And what about Wendigo, Bi-Beast, Baba Yaga, Hercules' punching power, the Hulk measured in Hercs, etc? Hope had a physical effect on the Hulk, and did in fact hit him with 133.5 Hercs of force. What again did the author descibe a Herc to be in that instance? How much force the Immortal Hercules could generate with one punch. You're trying to say that it meant something completely different, and if I were the type that was prone to take my eye off of the proverbial ball, I'd be like dur otay. But I'm not.
Originally posted by Stoic
And what about Wendigo, Bi-Beast, Baba Yaga, Hercules' punching power, the Hulk measured in Hercs, etc? Hope had a physical effect on the Hulk, and did in fact hit him with 133.5 Hercs of force. What again did the author descibe a Herc to be in that instance? How much force the Immortal Hercules could generate with one punch. You're trying to say that it meant something completely different, and if I were the type that was prone to take my eye off of the proverbial ball, I'd be like dur otay. But I'm not.
Had Carver brought Wendigo etc up, I wouldn't have said anything,.
That's my point. I'm only arguing against the idea that 1 Herc is the total energy from his punch.
From the same comic, Dr Cosimo SPECIFICALLY says Hercs measure the energy radiated by mythological beings.
And in EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE of Hercs being used, they're used to measure MYSTICAL energy.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Had Carver brought Wendigo etc up, I wouldn't have said anything,.That's my point. I'm only arguing against the idea that 1 Herc is the total energy from his punch.
From the same comic, Dr Cosimo SPECIFICALLY says Hercs measure the energy radiated by mythological beings.
And in EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE of Hercs being used, they're used to measure MYSTICAL energy.
And what about the full power that Hercules expends in a punch? Do we include that, or do we omit it? I'd think it best to include it, or we walk away with an incomplete notion.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Honestly no. Even if someone wants to argue that The Hulk can be 133 times stronger than Hercules, I don't see it as being any different from the times, say, Superman gets a boost or stops holding back and leaves all his supposed peers in the dust. Or Batman beats up a herald. Or Wolverine cuts a supposedly far-more powerful character.If Carver is wrong, he's wrong, but if he's right, I don't see why that would cause any kind of major shift in Hulk's reputation/placement on the forum.
Could've fooled me.
Basically, if Carver is wrong, and it comes from a mod, it stops these circular arguments. Carv and I had this exact discussion on Hercs years ago. If he is right, I will stop.
Originally posted by Stoic
And what about the full power that Hercules expends in a punch? Do we include that, or do we omit it? I'd think it best to include it, or we walk away with an incomplete notion.
That's the thing. You're misremembering the scan. It DOESNT say the full power.
Its the maximum amount of energy expended. Slight, but VERY important difference.
Because two panels before that, Cosimo explains that the energy it measures is that radiated by mythological beings. you and Carv are the ones walking away with an incomplete notion.
In short: it measures the maximum amount of mystical energy.