Originally posted by Silent Master
I did google it, no such studies exist. you were just making things up.
Honestly, I don't even know what we are supposed to be googling. I don't quite understand his point well enough to be a solid search parameter down.
What am I googling?
Modern atrocities committed by the a-religious and the religious? Okay, Atheism wins by a landslide with the most atrocities committed in all of human history. Body count doesn't even come close to comparing. Is that what we are google searching?
Originally posted by dadudemonthis- "there more of them that have done more shitty things"? is what he was questioning but its fairly irrelevant since
Honestly, I don't even know what we are supposed to be googling. I don't quite understand his point well enough to be a solid search parameter down.What am I googling?
Modern atrocities committed by the a-religious and the religious? Okay, Atheism wins by a landslide with the most atrocities committed in all of human history. Body count doesn't even come close to comparing. Is that what we are google searching?
A. Hes a troll
2.He has no interest in an honest convo about the topic as evidence by his prior history and the fact hes only interested in "facts" from one side and has no apparent interest in any peer review studies to back squalls claim about dbl standards towards christians.
C.he has on several occasions both lied and refused to back claims hes made in discussions with me so he gets the same courtesy in return.
With that being said if u would like to discuss either your post or mine im game.
Ill start with a cpl questions to try to get on the same page
Are u comparing atheists as a whole to theists as a whole or atheists to a specific religeon?
Are u counting hitler as an atheist due to his behind closed doors statements or as a christian since thats the public face he used to gain power and inspire and manipulate his people to fight and to do the things they did?
If ur including hitler (or others of his ilk) as an atheists are u attributing all of the atrocities to him/them or do the beliefs of those carrying out the orders factor in?
Are your numbers going by atrocities committed in the name of Christianity, or atrocities commited by christians?
Originally posted by Raptor22
this- "there more of them that have done more shitty things"? is what he was questioning but its fairly irrelevant sinceA. Hes a troll
2.He has no interest in an honest convo about the topic as evidence by his prior history and the fact hes only interested in "facts" from one side and has no apparent interest in any peer review studies to back squalls claim about dbl standards towards christians.
C.he has on several occasions both lied and refused to back claims hes made in discussions with me so he gets the same courtesy in return.
With that being said if u would like to discuss either your post or mine im game.
Ill start with a cpl questions to try to get on the same page
Are u comparing atheists as a whole to theists as a whole or atheists to a specific religeon?
Are u counting hitler as an atheist due to his behind closed doors statements or as a christian since thats the public face he used to gain power and inspire and manipulate his people to fight and to do the things they did?
If ur including hitler (or others of his ilk) as an atheists are u attributing all of the atrocities to him/them or do the beliefs of those carrying out the orders factor in?
Are your numbers going by atrocities committed in the name of Christianity, or atrocities commited by christians?
150 million dead from atheist leaders in the 20th century. Meaning, their specific belief system was part of why those 150 million people died.
It's a simple numbers problem since 150 million humans didn't even exist in, say, 2000 bce.
https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/world-population-by-year/
Meaning, it just was not possible to kill 150 million people within a 100 year time-span until modern history due to population requirements.
And Hitler was not a Christian - he was very anti-Christian. At worst, he was a secular theist, at best, he was a genuine atheist. His words become closer to atheism as he came into power. He used religion and God to help him gain power in a mostly Christian country (Germany) and he used religion as a tool to help him get that power. Just the same as American candidates do, today.
Hitlers views much more closely mirrored the iconoclastic ideals of the atheistic Bolsheviks than any sort of theistic religion, especially when discussed in private.
Mass Killings under atheistic communism are at about ~150-~250 million and that does not include the wars:
https://democraticpeace.wordpress.com/2008/11/24/reevaluating-chinas-democide-to-73000000/
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/COM.ART.HTM
RationalWiki likes to throw around huge numbers, numbering in the tens of millions, for Christian bodycounts. That's absurd. They say stupid shit like 1 million Nordic people killed to purge the polytheists for the budding Christian faith. one million, eh? We know by world population estimates that this would represent genocide of multiple peoples, not just a fractional extermination of just a few Nords.
Originally posted by dadudemon
150 million dead from atheist leaders in the 20th century. Meaning, their specific belief system was part of why those 150 million people died.It's a simple numbers problem since 150 million humans didn't even exist in, say, 2000 bce.
https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/world-population-by-year/
Meaning, it just was not possible to kill 150 million people within a 100 year time-span until modern history due to population requirements.
And Hitler was not a Christian - he was very anti-Christian. At worst, he was a secular theist, at best, he was a genuine atheist. His words become closer to atheism as he came into power. He used religion and God to help him gain power in a mostly Christian country (Germany) and he used religion as a tool to help him get that power. Just the same as American candidates do, today.
Hitlers views much more closely mirrored the iconoclastic ideals of the atheistic Bolsheviks than any sort of theistic religion, especially when discussed in private.
Mass Killings under atheistic communism are at about ~150-~250 million and that does not include the wars:
https://democraticpeace.wordpress.com/2008/11/24/reevaluating-chinas-democide-to-73000000/
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/COM.ART.HTM
RationalWiki likes to throw around huge numbers, numbering in the tens of millions, for Christian bodycounts. That's absurd. They say stupid shit like 1 million Nordic people killed to purge the polytheists for the budding Christian faith. one million, eh? We know by world population estimates that this would represent genocide of multiple peoples, not just a fractional extermination of just a few Nords.
Not sure where the 100 year time frame came from tbh.
I thought we were discussing this from u
"Okay, Atheism wins by a landslide with the most atrocities committed in all of human history. Body count doesn't even come close to comparing. Is that what we are google searching?"
Or this from me
"there more of them that have done more shitty things"
Or both.
I mean ive watched enough ancient aliens to know that people have been slaughtering other people because their sky gods told them to for a lot longer than 100 years ago.😄
If were discussing my statement then taking a few leaders from modern history that, thru technology and increased population size were able to rack up high body counts quickly doesnt detract from my point that there were more of them that have done more shitty things.
Even if the body counts for christians/theists were a small fraction of maos or stallins, imagine just how many terrible people would have had to do terrible things over decades and centuries to match what ur saying a few atheists did in a shorter period of time with advanced technology and increased populations.
As for Hitler, it doesnt really matter what his feelings were behind closed doors imho. What does matter is what he said and did and how he used his peoples deep beliefs in Christianity to get them to commit the atrocities that they did.
“My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice…For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.” -hitler
There are nearly endless quotes from hitler to his people echoing these exact sentiments.
Millions upon millions of german christians committed untold atrocities because they were certain thats what their god wanted them to do. Their belt buckles were even imprinted with the phrase "Gott Mit Un" which means God with us.
Im not sure how someone can dismiss all that and just because behind closed doors, to a few confidantes, hitler was an athiest.
Now we're supposed to ignore the fact that the overwhelming majority of his people were christians, and committed the attrocities they did, in the name of and with the blessing of their god, and place all of the bodies at the feet of a single athiest?
Yeah the numbers are iffy for alot of the things were discussing. I believe stallins body count used to be over 20 million, and was downgraded about a decade ago to around 10 million iirc.
Originally posted by Raptor22
Not sure where the 100 year time frame came from tbh.
Late Modern History + Contemporary History began around the start of the 20th Century. The true rise of modern history and technology is the post industrial period. When we started understanding electricity and the atom, we entered why I deem the True Modern History. Contemporary History started in 1945 but that's not a good start, IMO. A better start is when we started developing modern models of the atom and harnessing electricity for power which is around the turn of the 20th Century. 1905, Einsteins Special Theory of Relativity is also a true moment in science that brought us into the True Modern History.
When atheist political systems started taking over countries (rise of the Bolsheviks) compared to the religious atrocities in the same century: both had some "fun" with the body counts.
Christianity matured quite a bit after the Renaissance: body counts sharply dropped. Atheism hit its peak of human atrocities in the 20th Century and continues into the 21st Century with only Islam being able to match it. The 20th Century is also considered Modern History.
Communistic Atheism = the most evil thing we have ever done in human history. Body count is the highest of anything we have to reference in all of history.
People still use religion to do terrible things so I agree with all those other points you were making.