Superman Vs. The Silver Surfer

Originally posted by darthgoober
Hell IDK, Thanos is all over the place nowadays. And against Thor I think the Asgardian would probably have a tough time getting in a good hit too in a forum fight. I wouldn't say it would be impossible for Thor either though, because he does have a history of being able to throw that hammer pretty freaking fast when he wants.

But Thor often telegraphs. He whirls the hammer almost every time to build up speed before throwing it. Surfer is supposed to have light speed reflexes anyway, so that shouldn't fly in a forum fight right?

And there is no excuse for Thanos. There is no way he should be able to punch Surfer in the face while Surfer is able to react to Superman's speed. That would be a contradiction. Can't have it both ways.

Either he can react to Superman and become hittable to Thanos or he can't react to Superman and is hittable for Thanos. It's one or the other as Superman and Thanos have a vast difference in speed in a forum fight.

Originally posted by h1a8
But Thor often telegraphs. He whirls the hammer almost every time to build up speed before throwing it. Surfer is supposed to have light speed reflexes anyway, so that shouldn't fly in a forum fight right?

And there is no excuse for Thanos. There is no way he should be able to punch Surfer in the face while Surfer is able to react to Superman's speed. That would be a contradiction. Can't have it both ways.

Either he can react to Superman and become hittable to Thanos or he can't react to Superman and is hittable for Thanos. It's one or the other as Superman and Thanos have a vast difference in speed in a forum fight.

You're only saying that because you're working backwards. Thanos hitting Surfer could theoretically be because of PIS holding Surfer back, or it could be because he's just fast enough to do that somehow. I'm not trying to make the claim either way. My only point is that the rules on speed apply to Surfer too.

Originally posted by h1a8
But Thor often telegraphs. He whirls the hammer almost every time to build up speed before throwing it. Surfer is supposed to have light speed reflexes anyway, so that shouldn't fly in a forum fight right?

And there is no excuse for Thanos. There is no way he should be able to punch Surfer in the face while Surfer is able to react to Superman's speed. That would be a contradiction. Can't have it both ways.

Either he can react to Superman and become hittable to Thanos or he can't react to Superman and is hittable for Thanos. It's one or the other as Superman and Thanos have a vast difference in speed in a forum fight.

Grundy shouldn't be able to land a punch in Superman face but he does. What are you implying here? Are you saying because Thanos and Thor hit Surfer, that Surfer is slow? Does this apply to Superman as well? Since Kalibak, Grundy and Ikon hit Superman, does that make his reflexes bad?

I see what you're saying, carv. And I'd even agree with you...

... but, as much as it pains me to say it, Supes actually does get very good combat speed feats from time to time, unlike the ones such as Thor or Surfer.

Originally posted by carver9
Grundy shouldn't be able to land a punch in Superman face but he does. What are you implying here? Are you saying because Thanos and Thor hit Surfer, that Surfer is slow? Does this apply to Superman as well? Since Kalibak, Grundy and Ikon hit Superman, does that make his reflexes bad?

Superman atomizes SS with a single punch. He ceases to exists in all times lines. He would hit Surver so hard people in the real world forget about it him

Goober would never forget.

Originally posted by carver9
Grundy shouldn't be able to land a punch in Superman face but he does. What are you implying here? Are you saying because Thanos and Thor hit Surfer, that Surfer is slow? Does this apply to Superman as well? Since Kalibak, Grundy and Ikon hit Superman, does that make his reflexes bad?

You tell us.

Is Thanos slow? Let's start from there.

Quanos is faster than Barry and Wally, but regular Dione can be blitzed to shit by any competent "metastreet" character.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Surfer has the abilities to win, without the feats to back it up.

He CAN win, but he won’t. For someone with as many abilities as he has, he is so easily bum rushed and dragged into a melee it’s kind of embarrassing.

And even if he did properly use the power cosmic, he’s still fighting Superman. It’s not going to go easy

It's like if I gave you a sword, knife, foam, rope, glock, night vision, bulletproof armor, camo clothing and a motorcycle.

Then I said, now go fight Hulk.

Can you do a lot of stuff? Sure. But it doesn't matter, because all of them are shit.

Like the beggar version of Captain Cold's abilities being posted here.

At least, for all of the shit he gets, Thor has stuff like the Godblast and whatnot.

Surfer is this this guy fighting Indiana Jones:

YouTube video

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Goober would never forget.

Sad.

I pop in here after all these years and the vice-grip of delusion has not waned.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Often, not always. I said Norrin should be tough for him to hit, just not impossible.

You're only saying that because you're working backwards. Thanos hitting Surfer could theoretically be because of PIS holding Surfer back, or it could be because he's just fast enough to do that somehow. I'm not trying to make the claim either way. My only point is that the rules on speed apply to Surfer too.

But we all know that Thanos isn't faster than light speed. You would be hard pressed in proving that he's faster than a bullet.

You are not using logic. Light speed is vastly greater than bullet speed. A bullet would be a statue against something moving at light speed.

Like I said, if Surfer can react to faster than light speed (Superman) with any type of consistency then he's unhittable to bullet speeds (Thanos).

So is it PIS or Surfer can't react to Superman level speed with any consistency?

Originally posted by carver9
Grundy shouldn't be able to land a punch in Superman face but he does. What are you implying here? Are you saying because Thanos and Thor hit Surfer, that Surfer is slow? Does this apply to Superman as well? Since Kalibak, Grundy and Ikon hit Superman, does that make his reflexes bad?

I'm talking about in a forum fight. Either a character will react to Superman level speed and be unhittable to speeds vastly slower or not.
I was trying to get Goober's take on how Surfer should operate in a forum.

Originally posted by h1a8
But we all know that Thanos isn't faster than light speed. You would be hard pressed in proving that he's faster than a bullet.

You are not using logic. Light speed is vastly greater than bullet speed. A bullet would be a statue against something moving at light speed.

Like I said, if Surfer can react to faster than light speed (Superman) with any type of consistency then he's unhittable to bullet speeds (Thanos).

So is it PIS or Surfer can't react to Superman level speed with any consistency?

Originally posted by h1a8
I'm talking about in a forum fight. Either a character will react to Superman level speed and be unhittable to speeds vastly slower or not.
I was trying to get Goober's take on how Surfer should operate in a forum.

Originally posted by darthgoober
No, we don't KNOW that. In order to actually support a claim like that his lack of lightspeed reflexes would need to be spelled out on panel in an "on the nose" fashion. There's a big difference between lacking in specific types of feats and having an established cap on one's abilities. He may not have much in the way of quantifiable speed feats, but that's true of many villains up to and including guys like Mongul, Cyborg Supes, Doomsday, Darkseid, and Mxy.

My take is irrelevant to this particular topic though. I'm not a fan of the way speed gets pushed by many, nor am I a fan of the way it gets special treatment via forum rules, but since a ruling has been made I'm not going to try to argue that my preference is what everyone else should debate by. According to the rules Flash uses his speed defensively to dodge attacks in a forum fight regardless of how frequently he gets hit on panel(or by who), so does Supes, so does Surfer.

That's not how debating works. There must be proof supporting a character having special abilities attributed to them. Otherwise, they do not have them. The writer has to make it clear that Thanos can move faster than light. Otherwise he can't. No feats = no ability. That goes for anyone.
(i.e. the onus is one to prove the special attribute and not for the one to disprove it).

So you are of the logic that a character can randomly dodge light speed attacks and get hit with speeds under bulletspeed all in the same forum fight (like in comics)?

Originally posted by h1a8
That's not how debating works. There must be proof supporting a character having special abilities attributed to them. Otherwise, they do not have them. The writer has to make it clear that Thanos can move faster than light. Otherwise he can't. No feats = no ability. That goes for anyone.
(i.e. the onus is one to prove the special attribute and not for the one to disprove it).

So you are of the logic that a character can randomly dodge light speed attacks and get hit with speeds under bulletspeed all in the same forum fight (like in comics)?

If you want to try to get the mods to make a ruling on Thanos's speed/reflexes go right ahead, but all I've been saying here is that the rules on characters using common sense in regards to the speed they use defensively apply to Surfer as well.

My take:

Thanos hitting Surfer falls in the same category as Weather Wizard or Heatwave, or hell, Grodd, tagging Flash. We don't automatically scale off Flash's highest feats and say yeah, Heatwave is lightspeed+.

Thus, Surfer getting tagged by Thanos doesn't mean Surfer has no speed. It just means the writers want to make it a good plot.

The ruling on speed has ALWAYS been there. It just needed pointing out because people didn't understand/didn't WANT to understand the concept.

As for this thread? Surfer can try being defensive all he wants. Superman would just ramp up, same way he ramps up when Flash is being defensive with his speed.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
I like Goobs, but I agree buddy!

He's a very likeable fellow.

He has his quirks (like being into surfers with no dicks and no buttholes, which leaves oral sex and handjobs as only possibilities), but nobody on this site is exactly normal.

Originally posted by Philosophía
It's not even about his abilities -- he's a jack of many trades, but shit in all of them. He has a lot of abilities -- but none of them at a level where it's even bothersome.

It's like if I gave you a sword, knife, foam, rope, glock, night vision, bulletproof armor, camo clothing and a motorcycle.

Then I said, now go fight Hulk.

Can you do a lot of stuff? Sure. But it doesn't matter, because all of them are shit.

Like the beggar version of Captain Cold's abilities being posted here.

At least, for all of the shit he gets, Thor has stuff like the Godblast and whatnot.

Surfer is this this guy fighting Indiana Jones:

YouTube video

Yes that’s a great way of putting it...

he is so easily bum rushed and dragged into a melee it’s kind of embarrassing.

My favourite example is when Murdock wanted him out of his law office, lol.

Tackled him through the window, grabbed him by his throat, undressed before his eyes...

Surfer got raped so bad there, he actually let Matt navigate his board.