What's the state of TCW in Legends?

So, pre-2014, it was T-Canon. But then after Fantasy Flight published a sourcebook saying that there were tapes made by the Republic to help the war effort which were altered by the Empire, did it get downgraded to S-Canon?

I mean it makes sense; it seemed like they were going for a propaganda tape kind of feel, for whatever reason.

And why do you think Leland Chee didn't want to address its canonocity until after it was over? What do you think he would have said if TCW had ended while Legends was still canon, considering the numer of fans who hated the retcons?

I’m looking at it now as it’s in Legends but it doesn’t mesh with C-Canon. This makes it a lot more understandable rather than try and make it fit, because it doesn’t.

Also what sourcebook?

so....anybody?

I'd say that like the OT and the PT, TCW exist in both continuities. Many of TCW characters, such as Savage, appear in many EU material, for example.

The way I view it is kind of like how time streams were described in Avengers: Endgame, where a fixed event can have different outcomes, streams of time branching off into different directions.

I'd describe the PT, the OT and TCW as all being one big fixed event with two different connecting time streams, one that stays course, which is canon, and then one that branches off into another direction, which is Legends.

Hopefully that answers your question, because TBH, I'm not too sure I understand it. (probably my bad)

Originally posted by Zentrex
So, pre-2014, it was T-Canon. But then after Fantasy Flight published a sourcebook saying that there were tapes made by the Republic to help the war effort which were altered by the Empire, did it get downgraded to S-Canon?

Pretty sure that is referring to the Genndy Series rather than Filoni's.

Anyway, C-canon can't overwrite T-canon.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
I’m looking at it now as it’s in Legends but it doesn’t mesh with C-Canon. This makes it a lot more understandable rather than try and make it fit, because it doesn’t.

Also what sourcebook?

I know, I'd prefer for it to be S-canon as well, considering it intentionally ignored C-Canon. I think it was the Force and Destiny. The Republic made tapes to motivate the war effort and those tapes were manipulated by Compnor, and that's what TCW is.

It's what Matt Wilkins thought, and I can't find the video, but there's one where he says that he went to a convention where he asked someone who worked on the book itself if that was the case, and they said it was a "great interpretation."
That video was uploaded somewhere between his RPG collection one in Dec 2015 and his Coruscant Nights Review in Mar 2017.

Manda-LORE also referenced it here:
https://youtu.be/ujRvFatw2c8?t=3435

Originally posted by ares834
Pretty sure that is referring to the Genndy Series rather than Filoni's.

Anyway, C-canon can't overwrite T-canon.

Oh, and wasn't the concept of "T-Canon" removed by the Force and Destiny Rulebook or Sourcebook or whatever it was?

I mean, Leland Chee did only use T-Canon as a temporary solution and said that he would sort it out properly after the series finished. Problem is, it never got a chance to. So now, what do we at KMC want to consider TCW?

Originally posted by Dominis
I'd say that like the OT and the PT, TCW exist in both continuities. Many of TCW characters, such as Savage, appear in many EU material, for example.

The way I view it is kind of like how time streams were described in Avengers: Endgame, where a fixed event can have different outcomes, streams of time branching off into different directions.

I'd describe the PT, the OT and TCW as all being one big fixed event with two different connecting time streams, one that stays course, which is canon, and then one that branches off into another direction, which is Legends.

Hopefully that answers your question, because TBH, I'm not too sure I understand it. (probably my bad)

Well, yes, there are materials which are both Legends and Canon, like the original 6 movies, the first 6 seasons of the Clone Wars, and the Darth Maul: Son of Dathomir comic. But I want to know whether TCW is T-Canon (if there is one anymore), C-Canon, or S-Canon in Legends.

I know Disney or any official source doesn't care enough about Legends to really give us an answer, but I just want to have one as a community. What do we all think?

Originally posted by Zentrex
Well, yes, there are materials which are both Legends and Canon, like the original 6 movies, the first 6 seasons of the Clone Wars, and the Darth Maul: Son of Dathomir comic. But I want to know whether TCW is T-Canon (if there is one anymore), C-Canon, or S-Canon in Legends.

Well its certainly not S-Canon.

Its pretty much on par with the movies. Like ares said the old C-Canon stuff cant override it. Like Dominis stated, too much of Legends was based around it.

Originally posted by Zentrex
Well, yes, there are materials which are both Legends and Canon, like the original 6 movies, the first 6 seasons of the Clone Wars, and the Darth Maul: Son of Dathomir comic. But I want to know whether TCW is T-Canon (if there is one anymore), C-Canon, or S-Canon in Legends.

I know Disney or any official source doesn't care enough about Legends to really give us an answer, but I just want to have one as a community. What do we all think?

I’d just keep it as T, since it doesn’t mesh with C. The works such as the TCW comics could be C but only to TCW itself. Any material which just references you could throw in as S.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well its certainly not S-Canon. Its pretty much on par with the movies.

Is there a reason you're so certain?
I know that that's how it was in the old canon, but even then it was meant to be a temporary solution. Is there any official source that makes it still part of Legends?

The only thing I can think of is the "COMPNOR editing" sentence in Force and Destiny Sourcebook 1, which pretty much stated that the TCW episodes were just tapes made by the republic to portray what actually took place.

If there is a source or statement by Leland Chee I don't know about, could you direct me to it?

Like ares said the old C-Canon stuff cant override it. Like Dominis stated, too much of Legends was based around it.

Wasn't there a lot more that wasn't based around it? Unless I'm mistaken, it was sparsely referenced outside of its own supplemental books and comics, which could also be considered about as accurate as the show itself.

And if it is demoted to the status of S-Canon, then references to it in other material shouldn't be a problem, since you could say that those specific things were the way they were mentioned in those other C-Canon installments.

I’d just keep it as T, since it doesn’t mesh with C.

Any particular reason to not make it S-Canon instead?

The works such as the TCW comics could be C but only to TCW itself.

C-Canon, but only TO something that's T-Canon? I don't understand.

Any material which just references you could throw in as S.

So the material that referenced a T-Canon source has be S-Canon? I'm very confused? Do you see C-Canon as being a different continuity than T/G-Canon? Because I've been thinking of it as one continuity with certain installments being able to override what's seen in other installments of lower canonicity in the case of a contradiction.

Originally posted by Zentrex

Is there a reason you're so certain?
I know that that's how it was in the old canon, but even then it was meant to be a temporary solution. Is there any official source that makes it still part of Legends?

The only thing I can think of is the "COMPNOR editing" sentence in Force and Destiny Sourcebook 1, which pretty much stated that the TCW episodes were just tapes made by the republic to portray what actually took place.

If there is a source or statement by Leland Chee I don't know about, could you direct me to it?

What is Legends? Its the old continuity which included TCW seasons 1-5.

Plenty of Legends material based around those 5 seasons as well.

Really not sure what there is to dispute here. Just because theres contradictions. Lucas work always contradicted the EU. But the EU always chose to follow what was set out by Lucas regardless.

Originally posted by Zentrex
Any particular reason to not make it S-Canon instead?

C-Canon, but only TO something that's T-Canon? I don't understand.

So the material that referenced a T-Canon source has be S-Canon? I'm very confused? Do you see C-Canon as being a different continuity than T/G-Canon? Because I've been thinking of it as one continuity with certain installments being able to override what's seen in other installments of lower canonicity in the case of a contradiction.

Yes because those works are directly going off from TCW so those comics could be looked at similar to the novels and comics etc found in C-Canon.

I do because TCW cannot fit into the C-Canon timeline prior to 08, hence why I see it as separate because it makes it easier to understandstand. Continuity Canon, the comics expand on the show, much like C-Canon did with the movies.

Example the Clone Wars campaign guide references Clone Assassins from the ROTS game and Commando novels. Yet the book also has TCW references to it, so you go S-Canon take what is needed and dismiss the rest.

I mean if you wanna see it as one more power to you. I don’t for the sake of the timeline and not wanting to dismiss all that hard work authors and devs did for all those comics/games/books that came out prior to 08.

Originally posted by Zentrex
Well, yes, there are materials which are both Legends and Canon, like the original 6 movies, the first 6 seasons of the Clone Wars, and the Darth Maul: Son of Dathomir comic. But I want to know whether TCW is T-Canon (if there is one anymore), C-Canon, or S-Canon in Legends.

I know Disney or any official source doesn't care enough about Legends to really give us an answer, but I just want to have one as a community. What do we all think?

If we treat legends as if it still has a canon hierarchy then TCW will be higher than any other source except the 6 movies, which means any source suggesting that it isn't canon is wrong. I mean, that's the way it would be if Disney never purchased SW. And for the sake of legends forums, I don't see why we should change that. If we do, then people are going to try to pick and choose what they view as fitting in legends and what doesn't, and everyone won't agree, and it will create a mess. So the best bet is to stick to the way it was, IMO. (For instance, in a legends debate, I may want to use Maul's feats from TCW, and then what? You're going to tell me I can't because you decide to not acknowledge the events in TCW as being apart of legends continuity? Can you really argue that with so much TCW legends tie-ins?)

Otherwise, you're right, Lucasfilm doesn't care about any canon hierarchy we place on legends. Legends is just legends to them, all equally non-canon now.

^ Exactly right 👆

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Yes because those works are directly going off from TCW so those comics could be looked at similar to the novels and comics etc found in C-Canon.

I mean if you wanna see it as one more power to you. I don't for the sake of the timeline and not wanting to dismiss all that hard work authors and devs did for all those comics/games/books that came out prior to 08.

Makes sense.

For instance, in a legends debate, I may want to use Maul's feats from TCW, and then what? You're going to tell me I can't because you decide to not acknowledge the events in TCW as being apart of legends continuity? Can you really argue that with so much TCW legends tie-ins?

Actually, I totally would argue that. Legends makes much more sense with Maul never having returned. And it's not like changing something like that would destroy all continuity, especially if you go by the whole "COMPNOR" theory.

If we do, then people are going to try to pick and choose what they view as fitting in legends and what doesn't, and everyone won't agree, and it will create a mess

Fair enough, though.

I guess it is what it is. I'd rather use the continuity retconned by TCW, but we'll just cross that bridge when we get to it.

The old EU was being continuously retconned. First by the Prequels (even up to ROTS), and later by TCW. That was nothing new, and was the whole reason for having Levels of Canonicity at that time.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
The old EU was being continuously retconned. First by the Prequels (even up to ROTS), and later by TCW. That was nothing new, and was the whole reason for having Levels of Canonicity at that time.

Sure it was, but I don’t think it ever was on the scale of what TCW did in retonning a huge chunk of material.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Sure it was, but I don’t think it ever was on the scale of what TCW did in retonning a huge chunk of material.

Because there was more of it. Thats literally the only reason. But the principle is the same. The EU follows Lucas canon. As does Disney. Lucas canon is the one constant.