Trump says he takes responsibility over Covid-19 as Biden enjoys large poll lead
Trump says he takes responsibility over Covid-19 as Biden enjoys large poll lead
Coronavirus live news: Trump says Fauci 'alarmist'; Hong Kong makes masks mandatory indoors
Originally posted by RobtardBut it's going to have a much higher chance of potentially stopping droplets and such than that.
Build a wall? 😛
I mean, yeah. I'm not a virologist or whatever the person is that investigates that kind of shit, but I know enough to know that if a dude coughs in my face, a mask would mitigate at least some of the shit I could catch from it.
I don't even like masks (the comfort side i mean, and I'm convinced people can't hear me when I'm talking), but the whole "there's no point" issue kind of rubs me the wrong way. Me and my two lung-related conditions will tolerate an uncomfortable mask if we have to.
Originally posted by -Pr-
I mean, yeah. I'm not a virologist or whatever the person is that investigates that kind of shit, but I know enough to know that if a dude coughs in my face, a mask would mitigate at least some of the shit I could catch from it.
And if you're both wearing masks, the chances of you catching something off him would massively decrease.
I mean it's just common sense really.
Originally posted by Gehenna
This doesn't inform us of the counter-factual, which is what things would look like absent of masks. Also, having a mandate for mask-wearing doesn't tell us a thing about enforcement.Both India and the Philippines have relatively low state capacity in comparison to a country in America or, say, Europe so it's not simple and/or easy to implement such a broad-stroke policy as a mask mandate.
Also, self-reporting (as talked about between us) has a slew of problems. It's arduous to be certain how misrepresented (or "fudged"😉 the numbers are in these particular cases.
Not to be forgotten about, there's a moral hazard involved with masks, insomuch as people might engage in activities they otherwise wouldn't, for fear of the virus, which even masks cannot provide protection from. Masks aren't a license to participate in risky behaviors, it's designed to mitigate risks in daily tasks that are a necessity.
One of the researchers who posted this on twitter said it was cross-referenced with "field observations" as well. And from the governments India: super high enforcement. Philippines: super high enforcement.
Here's what I think is happening:
1. Your idea - masks my be introducing additional risks by creating mobile petri dishes and getting people sick (because they adjust their mask every 5 seconds, touch all over their face, etc.).
2. Masks don't work (we know this from the research - masks simply don't work).
3. These countries didn't have proper testing until recently. They were dying all along we just didn't know it.
Originally posted by dadudemon❌ double down DDM... double down!
This wasn't self-reporting - this was researchers making observations and documenting results. India: super high enforcement. Philippines: super high enforcement.Here's what I think is happening:
1. Your idea - masks my be introducing additional risks by creating mobile petri dishes and getting people sick (because they adjust their mask every 5 seconds, touch all over their face, etc.).
2. Masks don't work (we know this from the research - masks simply don't work).
3. These countries didn't have proper testing until recently. They were dying all along we just didn't know it.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Nib has cleared this up. That People still need to social distance to stop the spread.But Masks are just a really simple precaution to take. And it's just that, a precaution. Taking Precautions are all we can do until we have a cure or vaccine.
I don't get why people have an issue with them.
How do you explain the delayed spikes in infections and deaths in India and Philippines?
They are now starting to hit the numbers/stride that most other countries hit at the end of March, beginning of April.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
The British Medical Association disagrees.
They can disagree all they'd like: actual research shows they do not work.
Except when the following is true:
1. N95 is used
2. N95 is used all day long with no exception.
3. Strict mask wearing protocols are followed.
4. Mask is fit properly including an inspection.
As Sorgo pointed out, getting people to follow such strict mask policy is impossible. You can do it with Healthcare workers which is what that result came from.
Oh, and cloth masks? More dangerous than just simply going without a mask.
Originally posted by cdtm
...what are they talking about?Headline on Fox:
"Oxford vaccine provides "Doubke Immunity" in Oxford trials."
Logic for the double immunity: Evidence of anti-bodies and T-cells.
Did they make that up? Double immunity? Aren't you either immune or not?
You can have immunity protection from multiple sources:
IgG (b-cell produced) and T-Cells. Different immuno-responses.
Really cool map of the US that measures mask wearing. It was based on 'field observations' and measured against survey responses to see how often Americans wear masks and how honest they are:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/07/17/upshot/coronavirus-face-mask-map.html
I wonder if there is a correlation between mask wearing and positives per 100,000 people. Bet there is a stronger correlation to population density and almost no correlation to mask wearing. 🙂
And the two don't usually go hand in hand?
I mean, you produce anti-bodies after a first encounter, right? We've been doing that since the outbreak, it's been a measure of how wide the infection has spread.
While I know jack-all about biology, you wouldn't get antibodies without some T-cell involvement, would you?
Originally posted by cdtm
And the two don't usually go hand in hand?I mean, you produce anti-bodies after a first encounter, right? We've been doing that since the outbreak, it's been a measure of how wide the infection has spread.
While I know jack-all about biology, you wouldn't get antibodies without some T-cell involvement, would you?
This is the best you'll get:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4702236/
The route by which an antigen enters our body and its chemical composition steers the (secondary) immune reaction into preferential patterns of class switching. Besides direct B-cell triggering by the antigen itself, a number of secondary signals will influence differentiation of the B-cell, including recognition by pattern-recognition receptors like Toll-like receptors and cytokines produced by other lymphocytes and antigen-presenting cells (5, 6). For example, protein antigens usually trigger B-cells receiving T-cell help through MHC-class II expressed by the B-cell. For those antigens, class switching tends to be IgG1 or IgG3, but can also be IgG4 or IgE. On the other hand, in the absence of T-cell help, polysaccharide antigens may induce class switching to IgG2 in particular. B-cells undergoing class switching in a primary or secondary immune reaction can also go through subsequent class switching (7), but those events are limited by the availability of remaining heavy chain genes, not excised from the genome in previous class-switching events. The relatively terminal position of the Cγ4 cassette may be one of the reasons why IgG4 responses tend to occur after repeated antigen exposure (8).
Originally posted by dadudemon
How do you explain the delayed spikes in infections and deaths in India and Philippines?They are now starting to hit the numbers/stride that most other countries hit at the end of March, beginning of April.
We’ve implemented a series of different quarantine protocols, as time progressed these protocols became looser. At the start, ppl weren’t even allowed to leave their homes unless it was to purchases necessities or for medical reasons. All businesses were closed and even going outside to excersize wasn’t allowed. But as pressure increased from several sectors, government gradually loosed these protocols, eventually businesses were allowed open and ppl went back to work even in nonessential industries.
In the Region wher I live, for example, we once used to only get 2-3 cases per day, sometimes even zero (when we were at our strictest measures). Last I checked (since I’ve logged out of social media for a bit) was July 10 and we had over 41 new cases in one day.
These are all personal opinions/observations of course. Didn’t do any deep dive study (as I really don’t wanna get into the harsh realities of this pandemic anymore) just watched the news and participated in a corporate chatgroup that has updated news on covid. So take this for what it is.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
We’ve implemented a series of different quarantine protocols, as time progressed these protocols became looser. At the start, ppl weren’t even allowed to leave their homes unless it was to purchases necessities or for medical reasons. All businesses were closed and even going outside to excersize wasn’t allowed. But as pressure increased from several sectors, government gradually loosed these protocols, eventually businesses were allowed open and ppl went back to work even in nonessential industries.In the Region wher I live, for example, we once used to only get 2-3 cases per day, sometimes even zero (when we were at our strictest measures). Last I checked (since I’ve logged out of social media for a bit) was July 10 and we had over 41 new cases in one day.
These are all personal opinions/observations of course. Didn’t do any deep dive study (as I really don’t wanna get into the harsh realities of this pandemic anymore) just watched the news and participated in a corporate chatgroup that has updated news on covid. So take this for what it is.
This is super interesting. The only way lockdowns work is if everyone is literally locked down. From what I see, India and Philippines were the only countries to do so for an extended period of time with severe repercussions from the government. That's the only way to legit stop the spread of the virus. Once people go back out in public, no matter how many people wear masks and no matter how many fines you implement: they simply don't work.
Yeah, Philippines got much worse recently. Just in the last week. While the rest of the world is nearing the end of their coronavirus situation, Philippines is just now entering the Heat and India is nearly hitting the worst part of their situation.
Sweden is almost completely done. Almost no new daily deaths and new cases have plummeted. Extremely irritated that Sweden is pretty much done with this bullshit while we keep having to fight openings and closings, mask policies that keep changing, school openings and closings, etc. Sweden followed the science and now they are much further ahead of everyone else. That has to piss off a lot government officials currently making stupid decision.
Originally posted by dadudemon
This is super interesting. The only way lockdowns work is if everyone is literally locked down. From what I see, India and Philippines were the only countries to do so for an extended period of time with severe repercussions from the government. That's the only way to legit stop the spread of the virus. Once people go back out in public, no matter how many people wear masks and no matter how many fines you implement: they simply don't work.Yeah, Philippines got much worse recently. Just in the last week. While the rest of the world is nearing the end of their coronavirus situation, Philippines is just now entering the Heat and India is nearly hitting the worst part of their situation.
Sweden is almost completely done. Almost no new daily deaths and new cases have plummeted. Extremely irritated that Sweden is pretty much done with this bullshit while we keep having to fight openings and closings, mask policies that keep changing, school openings and closings, etc. Sweden followed the science and now they are much further ahead of everyone else. That has to piss off a lot government officials currently making stupid decision.
Trouble with a lockdown, is you can't maintain it indefinitely.
People need to eat.
Originally posted by cdtm
Trouble with a lockdown, is you can't maintain it indefinitely.People need to eat.
Right. I posted about this back in...March? The lockdowns were always intended to be temporary to "flatten the curve" as extended lockdowns will result in a higher body count than just if the entire population stayed almost 100% normal and got naturally exposed.
Philippines has 30% abject poverty - you can't force poor people, who are not sick, to quarantine for months on end. They will literally starve to death.