Originally posted by Surtur
So what about all the people with legitimate needs for the medications?
Yeah. Obviously there are legitimate needs for these drugs. My dad has a severe bad back, he's essentially crippled from it and the only thing allowing him to function at all is these drugs. He takes them as he's supposed to though, and he's been taking them for a very long time.
The problem comes from doctors prescribing them to people who don't need them. DDM's solution is the best one, make drug rehab more of a priority than locking people up.
When people can’t get there prescription pain meds any longer for some reason and such they will try to buy it illegally from drug dealers. When they can’t afford the $10-$20 a pill they will turn to heroin since it is also an opioid. Heroin starts out cheap until you become very tolerant toward it. And most times it’s mixed with fentanyl that will end up killing you.
So I will have to disagree with ddm somewhat. I agree this country needs to spend more on rehab and drug education. But we don’t grow heroin here and it needs to be kept out. It’s killing so many. I think maybe everyone has lost someone from this drug.
Originally posted by Surtur
I am always reminded of it being revealed Heath Ledger had been prescribed multiple opioids. For what reason?
He mixed it with ambien if recall. Primary “family” practitioners can only prescribe 7 days of opioids at a time. All practitioners in the state on North Carolina have to log on to the DEA website and access the patients narcotic history to make sure he isn’t “doctor hopping”or “pharmacy hopping”. All pain managements in North Carolina drug test for every medication visit. Even if the patient tests positive for marijuana (still illegal in this state) they will be kicked out of the practice
Originally posted by dadudemon
This is a much more important topic to discuss than almost anything Trump related.End the drug war, focus even 1/10 of those resources on drug rehab and drug-addiction programs and watch as we save the country hundreds of billions. It's not that hard.
Disagree. There is no opoid problem, this is a manufactured crisis.
Yes, some people will become addicted. It's been that way forever, and it's no worse now then it was then. It happens, there's nothing anyone can do about it, and most people won't have the problem.
Just like drinking. I drink, I moderate what I drink, how much, and when. No one says we should ban drinking,do they? So why ban opoids, just because a few people have a problem?
A few people can't drive either, why not ban cars? Or kids, since some are horrible abusive or incompetent parents.
Make drugs legal and let individuals decide what's good for them, not government.
Originally posted by cdtm
Disagree. There is no opoid problem, this is a manufactured crisis.Yes, some people will become addicted. It's been that way forever, and it's no worse now then it was then. It happens, there's nothing anyone can do about it, and most people won't have the problem.
Just like drinking. I drink, I moderate what I drink, how much, and when. No one says we should ban drinking,do they? So why ban opoids, just because a few people have a problem?
A few people can't drive either, why not ban cars? Or kids, since some are horrible abusive or incompetent parents.
Make drugs legal and let [b]individuals
decide what's good for them, not government. [/B]
I can stand behind that idea. The more government regulations, the worse it becomes.
Originally posted by Stringer
Well to be honest this issue has now become so popular because white people have become addicted. I don’t remember so much help being available during the heroin epidemic of the 70’s or the crack epidemic of the 80’s.
You're definitely older than me.
Anyway, yes, the crack epidemic was made a very big deal out of. Where do you think we got our mandatory minimum sentences and three strike rules from?
Cracking down on crack.
Originally posted by Stringer
How does nutrition have anything to do with pain management?
Omega 9 Fatty Acids can cause inflammation which is part of the pain-complex.
A diet high in Omega 9s would exacerbate pain related to inflammation ailments.
Additionally, it should be obvious that being overweight will make many pain issues worse.
Next, you can eat certain food to assist with pain management that can reduce pain symptoms and inflammation:
https://www.webmd.com/pain-management/eat-to-ease-pain
Originally posted by Stringer
When people can’t get there prescription pain meds any longer for some reason and such they will try to buy it illegally from drug dealers. When they can’t afford the $10-$20 a pill they will turn to heroin since it is also an opioid. Heroin starts out cheap until you become very tolerant toward it. And most times it’s mixed with fentanyl that will end up killing you.So I will have to disagree with ddm somewhat. I agree this country needs to spend more on rehab and drug education. But we don’t grow heroin here and it needs to be kept out. It’s killing so many. I think maybe everyone has lost someone from this drug.
Originally posted by cdtm
Disagree. There is no opoid problem, this is a manufactured crisis.Yes, some people will become addicted. It's been that way forever, and it's no worse now then it was then. It happens, there's nothing anyone can do about it, and most people won't have the problem.
Just like drinking. I drink, I moderate what I drink, how much, and when. No one says we should ban drinking,do they? So why ban opoids, just because a few people have a problem?
A few people can't drive either, why not ban cars? Or kids, since some are horrible abusive or incompetent parents.
Make drugs legal and let [b]individuals
decide what's good for them, not government. [/B]
For the topic that treating drug addiction like the actual medical and mental problem it actually is, see a previous posts I have made on this topic (read all elements of that convo to get a better idea of the items I am discussing). I've argued this topic so many times that at this point, you just have to search KMC for posts I made about it:
Originally posted by dadudemon
Both topics are bipartisan that I mentioned. Both democrats and republicans support, on average, criminalization of drugs. Both also support our foreign military-war-stuff.That's not what happens, though. Drug use decreases when drug prohibitions end. And the young people use the drugs less, too.
Almost all people who use drugs cannot afford drug use.
https://willingway.com/income-drug-alcohol-abuse/
You're still thinking in prohibition terms, still. Those are prohibition measures that do not effectively reduce drug use so post-prohibition, your question doesn't matter. When you no longer have a drug prohibition, questions like the one you ask here are moot. Drug prices - for the purposes of making drugs harder to obtain - doesn't even matter.
But here's a breakdown of the costs of drugs over time during the Great Drug Prohibition in the US:
I think the above is a good read.
This is not correct. All illegal drug users are criminals because that's how it works. So many are "uncaught and un-prosecuted." That's under the current system.
Just simply decriminalizing is not enough. As The Netherlands discovered, you must provide programs that help people "clean up" AND get mental and medical help.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924977X10700018
It costs far less to provide those programs than it does to maintain our Drug Prohibitions.
What if we spent the $7.6 billion that we did in Afghanistan to stop poppy production (which was to stop the opiate empire) on schools or drug-addiction programs? What would have happened with drug use?
Personally, I think the US has a very serious problem with tackling symptoms but not solving the underlying problems. It's sexier to see photos of massive drug busts. And they all throw bust parties, pat each other on the back, and the people in congress jerk each other off to these photos while saying, "See, our policies resulted in this major drug cartel being taken out. We're such good law makers." But, in reality, one falls, 3 spring up. Because the prohibition is still in place. And there's still an incentive for criminals to do criminally crimey crimes. The problem is the prohibition, but they keep tackling people who are taking advantage of the system prohibition creates.
They want to stop drug use? Why don't they stop drug use? Seems simple, right? You don't stop drug use by breaking up drug makers. That's not how it works and that's not how it will ever work.
My position comes from two places:
Libertarianism AND conservatism. Libertarian, obviously, because you shouldn't be able to tell an adult what they can or cannot put into their body. Conservatism because it's simply a fiscal problem to keep Drug Prohibitions in place. Spend a tenth of the amount of money on drug addiction treatment or even better, provide universal healthcare that includes mental healthcare (this is still a conservative position but US conservatives are too dumb, obstinate, and ignorant to realize that UHC is actually a conservative position).
Originally posted by cdtmur wrong about some stuff but right about others.
Disagree. There is no opoid problem, this is a manufactured crisis.Yes, some people will become addicted. It's been that way forever, and it's no worse now then it was then. It happens, there's nothing anyone can do about it, and most people won't have the problem.
Just like drinking. I drink, I moderate what I drink, how much, and when. No one says we should ban drinking,do they? So why ban opoids, just because a few people have a problem?
A few people can't drive either, why not ban cars? Or kids, since some are horrible abusive or incompetent parents.
Make drugs legal and let [b]individuals
decide what's good for them, not government. [/B]
Ur wrong, there is a very large opioid crisis. But ur right it is a manufactured one, manufactured by pharmaceutical and insurance companies.
Ur right some people will become addicted. But ur wrong about it not being worse now than it was before. Basically every statistic on the subject indicates that.
Ur right it happens but wrong about not being able to do anything about it.
Ur right about u as an adult moderating what u drink, how much and when. But its not like drinking. With prescription opioids its a dr thats moderating what u take, how much and when.
Thats all well and good in theory, when the dr is looking out for their patients best interest. In reality, thru either what amounts to bribery and/or strong arm tactics by big insurance/pharma companies the patients best interest get tossed out the window and they get over/unnecessarily medicated.
Sure the patient has the choice to not take them. But do they really? Not when people need medicine after surgery but insurance companies (in cahoots with pharma) restricts what u can get and eliminates the other options. So its either the highly addictive medicine that u need or nothing. Not much of a choice ur left with.
Thats why there needs to be laws, regulations, and restrictions that are enforced to keep these practices in check.