Pre-Retcon beyonder vs cosmic armor superman

Started by Sin I AM6 pages

Astner has a point though. Exposition that's not backed by evidence is less than actual feats.

The point he was trying to make about "the heat of 10 billion suns" is moot, though, because the only real effect it had was making Thought-Robot say "ouch" for a second. You can't quantify damage/vulnerability based solely on that. Again: Lego meet foot.

The assertion that Thought-Robot is 'featless' is just flat-out hysterical to me, because it entirely ignores the threat of Mandrakk across the board, and shows a gross lack of basic reading comprehension skills. But I also get that people are just trolling/lowballing for the most part... because that's what you have to do in a Superman thread these days...so it's not a discussion I'm going to entertain beyond this. Just amusing, is all. 🙂

Here’s another feat, the robot was big enough to casually hold 52 Universes in the palm of his hands.

Here’s another better feat, the robot is able to adapt to any form of attacks.

Originally posted by SquallX
Here’s another feat, the robot was big enough to casually hold 52 Universes in the palm of his hands.

Here’s another better feat, the robot is able to adapt to any form of attacks.

that was the limbo, not the multiverse

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Astner has a point though. Exposition that's not backed by evidence is less than actual feats.

He has no point.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
lots of characters are used as plot devices, that doesn't inherently make them more powerful than another cosmic being. Neither does "controlling the story". That's just another way of expressing reality warping.

Thought Robot has a measily 2 issue's of publication history. He fought 1 character with an ambiguous power level and virtually no concrete feats.

It doesn’t matter how many issues he had

Originally posted by MrMind
that was the limbo, not the multiverse
You could certainly argue that the Limbo realm scales far above the 3D multiverse, given that it transcends even the God Sphere.

But that's neither here nor there.

Originally posted by MrMind
that was the limbo, not the multiverse

Not only that, but the Monitors, who are about half the height of Cosmic Armored Superman, were about the same size as the superheroes when they entered Earth-1, and Mandrakk wasn't particularly large either.

So I'd argue that the Orrey of Worlds and Limbo are down-scaled in the Monitor Sphere.

That's how it works in DC.

The higher up in the dimensional structure you go, the more infinitesimal the lower dimensions become. From the perspective of the Monitor Sphere, for example, the multiverse is literally microbial. That's why they call it the "germ world."

When these beings opt to travel to the lower dimensions, their size is adjusted/scaled accordingly.

Originally posted by Galan007
You could certainly argue that the Limbo realm scales far above the 3D multiverse, given that it transcends even the God Sphere.

But that's neither here nor there.

oh yeah certainly, Limbo infinitely > than Sphere of Gods infinitely > than orrery of worlds

Originally posted by Astner
It's the only feat that's to some degree described in a quantifiable manner. "The heat of ten billion suns," is a bit ambiguous because the Sun's temperature ranges from 5,780 Kelvin at its surface up to 15,700,000 Kelvin in its core, for reference that's 9,940 to 28,300,000 Fahrenheit.

If we interpret the heat of ten billion suns as being commutative, i.e. if we simply add together the temperatures of ten billion suns, we end up with 5.78×10¹³ K to 2.38×10¹⁷ K which may seem impressive, but it's a far-cry from for instance the Planck Heat 1.42×10³² K that the Marquis of Death endured.

And this is a generous estimation, because what it means is that these suns would have to be super-positioned (exist in the same space) because a quasar that's simply ten billion times the mass of the Sun is going to have the same effective temperature of the sun, with the exception of the core which peaks at 4×10¹² K.

Surviving these temperatures would be an impressive feat for regular Superman. But when you talk about cosmic level beings, then no naturally occurring force should be able to hurt them.


Heat (energy) should be distinguished from temperature. The energy emitted by a star over its lifetime is ca. 10^44 Joules, therefore the heat of "ten billion suns" equals 10^54 Joules.

If we assume the heat capacity of CAS is 5*10^6 J/K (a rough order-of-magnitude estimate) then the heat of "ten billion suns" would increase his temperature by 2*10^47 K. That's way more than the Planck temperature.

Oh shit. It's on like donkey Kong

battle of the maths incoming.......

Magnon is who H1 wishes he'd be

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
battle of the maths incoming.......

Actually, it's not so much about maths as it's about interpretation of what was said on that panel. Astner assumed that "heat" meant temperature whereas I assumed that "heat" meant... heat. 😉

Beyonder

let's not fixated on the heat of ten billion suns, that's more like metaphor than anything. mandrakk and thot robot were not fighting in the the physical realm of the dc multiverse

people still fixated on power of energy beam or how many multiverses did it destroy, should not comment on thot robot thread, period. trying to apply scientific concepts like matter, energy, space, time etc to meta fictional beings is futile.

Thot Robot is superior because of DC's superior cosmology, Nil is infinitely above the 3rd dimensional multiverse, the closest marvel has that resembles dc's higher dimensions is the neutral zone, but the scaling isn't there as far as size and power concerned. The beyond realm certainly has no place in the new marvel cosmology, it is retconned. So it's relative size to marvel's multiverse during the 80s is well...not very relevant.

Originally posted by Galan007
That's how it works in DC.

The higher up in the dimensional structure you go, the more infinitesimal the lower dimensions become. From the perspective of the Monitor Sphere, for example, the multiverse is literally microbial. That's why they call it the "germ world."

When these beings opt to travel to the lower dimensions, their size is adjusted/scaled accordingly.

Doesn't this apply to the Beyonder as well?

Originally posted by Magnon
Heat (energy) should be distinguished from temperature. The energy emitted by a star over its lifetime is ca. 10^44 Joules, therefore the heat of "ten billion suns" equals 10^54 Joules.

If we assume the heat capacity of CAS is 5*10^6 J/K (a rough order-of-magnitude estimate) then the heat of "ten billion suns" would increase his temperature by 2*10^47 K. That's way more than the Planck temperature.

The energy from a star....is this Joule figure you have quoted just the heat energy, or have you accounted for sound and light etc as well (stars are actually really loud, as you would expect from a giant furnace).

Originally posted by Stoic
Doesn't this apply to the Beyonder as well?
Yes.

From the Beyond Realm, the Marvel multiverse was literally microbial/germ-esque to Beyonder... Which makes the 'pre-retcon' Beyond Realm about equal to DC's Monitor Sphere, in terms of scale.