Savage Opress vs TPM Yoda

Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
I'm not even joking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzzckJOwSlk

George let the Force clash between Dooku and Yoda run on for as long as it did to give the audience something to marvel over, but he knew Yoda and Count Dooku were equals and they would have figured this out right away, knowing any attack was hopeless. Lucas also says Yoda is "much more powerful" than Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi because he can block lightning with his hands, for what it's worth. These words go nicely with Animation Director Rob Coleman's comment that Lucas wanted "an amazing clash between two ultimate masters of opposite sides of the Force," and Pablo Hidalgo who says "The two Force warriors attempted to defeat each other with displays of telekinesis and other Force abilities, but they were too evenly matched," so there's nothing amusing about it.

And this is only AotC Dooku; RotS Dooku is more powerful than AotC Dooku...

Moral of the story: RotS Dooku > AotC Dooku = AotC Yoda.

They aren't equals even in Legends:

"The count left Obi-Wan beaten and Anakin without his right arm, and may have killed them both if not for Yoda, who arrived and launched a whirlwind attack. " Dooku barely escaped with his life."- Star Wars: The New Essential Chronology

"The Count’s attack grew more desperate, to no avail. Breathing hard, he backed away, but Yoda did not pursue him. To stop Dooku was all that was necessary, and he could not pass Yoda to reach his Solar Sailer." - —Attack of the Clones junior novel

"On Geonosis, Yoda's easy parrying and, indeed, handling of the Sith lightning Dooku hurled at him had come as a surprise."—Labyrinth of Evil

"Yoda and Dooku engaged in battle. First their powers in the Force were put to the test as Dooku attempted to crush the tiny Jedi Master with hurled debris. Yoda easily deflected such assaults, and even repulsed Dooku’s Force lightning attacks." —Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

"Despite his deadly lightsaber skills, Darth Tyranus is no match for his former Master Yoda when they duel on Geonosis."- Star Wars: Beware the Sith

"Master Yoda appears and not only prevents Dooku from killing the two Jedi, but forces him to flee- back to his dark master, Darth Sidious." - Star Wars: Miniature Ultimate Missions: Clone Strike

"Never underestimate Yoda. Being small doesn't mean he can't be deadly. Yoda's strength comes from the force. He achieves any height he needs in battle thanks to acrobatic force jumps. When Count Dooku realizes that Yoda is more than a match for him, he flees in his Solar Sailer." - Source: Star Wars: Jedi Battles

Yoda also repeatedly pushes back Dooku even when he's dark side enhanced on Vjun. Also, Yoda is confirmed in legends to have weakened post 700 years old in the force.

"Impressive! While size matters not, only five can I lift since I passed 700."

And isn't Yoda still more powerful then Dooku in new canon?

^ Canon AotC Yoda is 2x AotC Dooku, per Yoda's bio in Galaxy of Adventures.

Originally posted by Galan007
You talking about this series/volume?
https://i.imgur.com/3tC0CNX.png

Yes.

@Lord Stark: One of those sources contradict George Lucas's statement that they're equals in Force power, Star Wars: The New Essential Chronology saying that Dooku barely escaped with his life isn't a contradiction, Attack of the Clones junior novel is talking about their lightsaber duel, Labyrinth of Evil and The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia doesn't say that Yoda is Dooku's superior not even implicitly, Star Wars: Beware the Sith is talking about their lightsaber lightsaber, not their respective Force powers, Star Wars: Jedi Battles is talking about their entire duel and not exclusively how their Force powers stack up to each other.

Yoda's fight with Dooku on Vjun takes place 2 years after AotC, so it's not really relevant to their AotC versions. Yoda's statement "Impressive! While size matters not, only five can I lift since I passed 700." only means that a 900+ year old Yoda is less powerful than his 700 year old self, which doesn't rule out the notion that RotS Yoda is more powerful than TPM/AotC Yoda. Moreover, the time and year that Yoda made this statement hasn't been specified, I'd like to know when he made that statement.

In Canon, AotC Yoda is indeed twice as powerful as AotC Dooku. In the old continuity however, they're equals in Force strength.

Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
[B]@Lord Stark: One of those sources contradict George Lucas's statement that they're equals in Force power, Star Wars: The New Essential Chronology saying that Dooku barely escaped with his life isn't a contradiction, Attack of the Clones junior novel is talking about their lightsaber duel, Labyrinth of Evil and The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia doesn't say that Yoda is Dooku's superior not even implicitly, Star Wars: Beware the Sith is talking about their lightsaber lightsaber, not their respective Force powers, Star Wars: Jedi Battles is talking about their entire duel and not exclusively how their Force powers stack up to each other.

Yes, they did. Easily deflecting his Force Lightning implies superiority, esp. when we see how Yoda handles Sidious his actual equal's lightning. The bastion of quotes putting Yoda at or around ROTS Sidious contradicts that, esp. when in both Canon's Sidious is able to force choke Dooku from halfway across the galaxy. Every quote makes it clear.

ROTS Sidious >/= ROTS Yoda>Dooku, there was a time way back in Legends pre-ROTS where it could be argued Dooku was </= Yoda.

But the idea of Dooku being comparable in power to Sidious and Yoda was discarded in favor of those two being far more powerful than him.

The number of hoops you have to jump through to argue that any version of Yoda = Dooku is way more than if you do Yoda>Dooku. And digging up one quote for GL saying he wanted neither to beat the other 'throwing things at each other' isn't gonna change that. Esp. considering Yoda never went on the offensive against Dooku in the force contest. He only parried his attacks and most canon sources say he parried them with ease.

Yoda's fight with Dooku on Vjun takes place 2 years after AotC, so it's not really relevant to their AotC versions. Yoda's statement "Impressive! While size matters not, only five can I lift since I passed 700." only means that a 900+ year old Yoda is less powerful than his 700 year old self, which doesn't rule out the notion that RotS Yoda is more powerful than TPM/AotC Yoda. Moreover, the time and year that Yoda made this statement hasn't been specified, I'd like to know when he made that statement.

There are zero quotes as far as I am aware in the canon that suggests that Yoda grew substantially in strength between AOTC and ROTS. There is an abundance of quotes talking about Yoda>Dooku however.

Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
Yes.

@Lord Stark

I would also disagree that Yoda and Dooku were equals. They clearly were not. But on the other hand, every source that suggest some great disparity between them to is also out of logic. And there is a clear suggestion in AOTC, that it was Yoda's main goal to stop Dooku on Geonosis. Toying with him when there is bilions lifes at stake and a full scale war is out of Yoda's character. He tried, he did everything he could, if they would continue Yoda would win. But he failed.

I would disagree that ROTS Sidious >= Yoda though. Stover's novel was contradict the movie at that point from the very beginning. And ROTS script was always better then any book at that point. Yoda overhelmed Sidious in a duel, he was unable to overhelm him in a Force fight since they were equals. Sidious had an advantage as Yoda had to run after him all the time. On neutral ground, it would be much harder for Sidious to disarm Yoda.

And yes, Sidious choked Dooku. But in that scenario, Yoda, who after all was Sidious equal, at least in TK, should be capable to subdue Dooku with TK as well. And if he could, then the whole prequels are bullshit.
I would rather say, that it was kind of punishment for Dooku and as Sidious' apprentice Dooku had to take it. If he would rise his guard before or smth like that, Sidious could treat it like a challange. But obviously, Dooku is inferior to either Yoda or Sidious. But no that inferior.

Originally posted by McP
@Lord Stark

I would also disagree that Yoda and Dooku were equals. They clearly were not. But on the other hand, every source that suggest some great disparity between them to is also out of logic. And there is a clear suggestion in AOTC, that it was Yoda's main goal to stop Dooku on Geonosis. Toying with him when there is bilions lifes at stake and a full scale war is out of Yoda's character. He tried, he did everything he could, if they would continue Yoda would win. But he failed.

I would disagree that ROTS Sidious >= Yoda though. Stover's novel was contradict the movie at that point from the very beginning. And ROTS script was always better then any book at that point. Yoda overhelmed Sidious in a duel, he was unable to overhelm him in a Force fight since they were equals. Sidious had an advantage as Yoda had to run after him all the time. On neutral ground, it would be much harder for Sidious to disarm Yoda.

And yes, Sidious choked Dooku. But in that scenario, Yoda, who after all was Sidious equal, at least in TK, should be capable to subdue Dooku with TK as well. And if he could, then the whole prequels are bullshit.
I would rather say, that it was kind of punishment for Dooku and as Sidious' apprentice Dooku had to take it. If he would rise his guard before or smth like that, Sidious could treat it like a challange. But obviously, Dooku is inferior to either Yoda or Sidious. But no that inferior.

Mostly agreed on the Yoda & Sidious comparisons. I think by feats in all out on neutral ground Yoda defeats ROTS Sidious. Hype goes to Sidious but the movie and screenplay speak for themselves.

As for Dooku I mean I wouldn't say Yoda is 2x Dooku as the new canon does, but I'd still say there is a sizable gap in terms of raw force powers. In just sabers, Dooku comes much closer though.

Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
In Canon, AotC Yoda is indeed twice as powerful as AotC Dooku. In the old continuity however, they're equals in Force strength.

Nope the AOTC Novel and script make it clear Dooku was outmatched by Yoda. Not to mention the actual film where Dooku runs from Yoda.

So AOTC Yoda > AOTC Dooku in both Legends and Canon. Quoting outdated commentary where Lucas was bigging up the fight doesnt override anything.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Nope the AOTC Novel and script make it clear Dooku was outmatched by Yoda. Not to mention the actual film where Dooku runs from Yoda.

So AOTC Yoda > AOTC Dooku in both Legends and Canon. Quoting outdated commentary where Lucas was bigging up the fight doesnt override anything.

👆
Damn this is the first draft script Lucas mentions where it skips the force battle and goes straight to the lightsaber combat. It has Yoda obliterating Dooku

COUNT DOOKU charges across the space at YODA. He rains down blows upon the tiny figure. YODA doesn't budge an inch. For the first part of the contest, he parries every cut and thrust that Dooku aims. Nothing the great swordsman tries gets through. His energy drains. His strokes become feebler, slower.

YODA attacks! He flies forward. COUNT DOOKU is forced to retreat. Wprds are insufficient to describe the range and skill of Yoda's speed and swordplay. His lightsaber his a humming blur of light.

Count Dooku's lightsaber is sent cartwheeling from his hand. He staggers back, gasping and spent, against the control panel. YODA jumps onto DOOKU'S shoulders, and is about to drive the lightsaber into the top of the Count's head.

YODA
(continuing)
The end for you, Count, this is.

Savage dies worse than Bane

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, I've got the whole series downloaded except one or two issues that were never scanned.

Do you know which issue this is from?

I won’t be able to respond to the rebuttals against AotC Dooku’s parity with AotC Yoda because I don’t have time, thanks to COVID 19. Plus, my motivation to defend Dooku is low because people worship him on other boards :/

Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
Do you know which issue this is from?

Originally posted by Psychotron
So, Anakin defeated a Dooku that was stronger than the Dooku, who held his own against Yoda. Interesting.

Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
I won’t be able to respond to the rebuttals against AotC Dooku’s parity with AotC Yoda because I don’t have time, thanks to COVID 19. Plus, my motivation to defend Dooku is low because people worship him on other boards :/

People treat him like he is the second coming of Jesus Christ on the other forums.

Originally posted by Galan007
Regarding Dooku's growth, there's also this:

-Fact Files v3 #78.