If you take this info at face value...
You also have Luke comparing Snoke's "dark side mastery" to [RotJ] Palpatine's in Secrets of the Jedi:
https://i.imgur.com/apprMCC.jpg
"Unlike Emperor Palpatine before him, Snoke was not a Sith Lord, but his mastery of the dark side was equally as impressive -- and terrifying."I suppose the dialogue is open to interpretation, but imo Luke is using Palpatine's raw dark side power as a measuring stick for Snoke's. If Luke were just comparing Snoke to some random/generic Sith Lord, he likely would not have explicitly mentioned Palpatine in the same breath. But again, that's just my take.
This becomes important because in The Rise of Kylo Ren, Kylo implied that Luke is the one who gave Snoke his injuries:
https://i.imgur.com/XLc1rFp.jpg
"Snoke... Look what Master Luke did to you."And in the Ages series, we learn that Snoke both respects AND fears Luke:
https://i.imgur.com/4W8CuKQ.jpg
...It implies that ST-era Luke > Snoke = RotJ Palpatine.
Aside from that, Luke was already on par with Vader as of RotJ.
And after the events of RotJ, Luke spent yearS scouring the galaxy for any Jedi-related material he could get his hands on -- including Jocasta Nu's cache, as well as the High Republic vault. He also studied the ancient texts, and communed with the spirits of Kenobi, Yoda, and Anakin. Point being: canon ST-era Luke would have logically been one of(if not *the*) most knowledgeable Force users ever in the mythos.
If he was able to reach Vader's level in the 3 years between ESB and RotJ without any real guidance other than his training with Kenobi and Yoda, just imagine the levels he ascended to when he obtained the greatest wealth of Force-related knowledge in the galaxy, and had a few decades to study/master what he learned.
Originally posted by Galan007I thought Luke was super weak, but you kinda convinced me
If you take this info at face value......It implies that ST-era Luke > Snoke = RotJ Palpatine.
Aside from that, Luke was already on par with Vader as of RotJ.
And after the events of RotJ, Luke spent yearS scouring the galaxy for any Jedi-related material he could get his hands on -- including Jocasta Nu's cache, as well as the High Republic vault. He also studied the ancient texts, and communed with the spirits of Kenobi, Yoda, and Anakin. Point being: canon ST-era Luke would have logically been one of(if not *the*) most knowledgeable Force users ever in the mythos.
If he was able to reach Vader's level in the 3 years between ESB and RotJ without any real guidance other than his training with Kenobi and Yoda, just imagine the levels he ascended to when he obtained the greatest wealth of Force-related knowledge in the galaxy, and had a few decades to study/master what he learned.
Originally posted by Eli Vanto
How big of a difference do you think there was between ROTJ Vader and Sidious?
20% difference
Sidious wins, nothing on screen supports Luke being any better than the Emperor by TLJ and everyone assumes that Luke is on Vaders level without a rage amp conveniently forget that Vader was holding back throughout their entire fight in ROTJ (and ESB for that matter)
ESB - Sidious instructs Vader to bring Luke in ALIVE, the only time Vader put any real effort in was cutting Lukes hand off and even then he wasn't going to kill him
ROTJ - Luke specifically calls Vader out for being conflicted, saying he won't kill him because Luke can feel the good in him.... the conflict
so any comparisons or claims that Luke was on Vaders level as a duelist is false
Originally posted by Total WarriorSome will disagree with my assessment, I'm sure, but it makes sense to me. 😛
I thought Luke was super weak, but you kinda convinced me
Originally posted by PsychotronYeah.
Not in Disney canon. Galan posted a quote which puts Luke on Vader's level both as a duelist and a Force user and that's before the rage amp.
I mentioned this in the other thread, but the source makes it clear that Vader and Luke were intended to be on equal footing during RotJ. They may not have been actively trying to kill each other at first(Vader was trying to turn Luke, and Luke was trying to turn Vader), but that doesn't change the the fact that Luke was meant to be operating on Vader's level... Vader no longer had a discernible advantage over him(be it with the Force or with lightsaber skill.)
And obviously when Luke briefly gave in to the dark side, he surpassed Vader.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Not in Disney canon. Galan posted a quote which puts Luke on Vader's level both as a duelist and a Force user and that's before the rage amp.
those are Lucas' films and any interpretation that conflicts what's in the actual films is wrong; Luke out and out says these things IN FILM
^ Even in Disney canon, Vader a little after ANH is crushing robotically enhanced Rancors, whilst ROTJ Luke (without his lightsaber) is running from a regular Rancor.
Given how unreliable the story group have proven themselves to be, I dont believe a single quote from a source book can be placed above actual showings and feats.
Plus just the logic of it makes no sense. Luke is clearly a prodigy, but why would he be exactly equal to Vader both in Sabers and the Force at any one point. That in itself makes no sense.
Originally posted by Darth ThorNot a fair comparison, though. Canon Vader has had two full comic book series', multiple mini-series', a new ongoing series, and several showings in novels to flesh out his power in canon. Conversely, RotJ-era Luke has only been featured in like 1 comic since 2014.
^ Even in Disney canon, Vader a little after ANH is crushing robotically enhanced Rancors, whilst ROTJ Luke (without his lightsaber) is running from a regular Rancor.
Originally posted by Darth ThorWhat feats/showings does RotJ Luke have that discredit him being equal to Vader, though? Even the RotJ novelization paints them as equals, iirc, and the source I mentioned just cements it as a canon fact(whether you agree or not, canon is canon.)
Given how unreliable the story group have proven themselves to be, I dont believe a single quote from a source book can be placed above actual showings and feats.
Originally posted by Darth ThorLook how much Rey evolved in the 1 year between TFA and RoS. Luke had 3 years to evolve between ESB and RotJ.
Plus just the logic of it makes no sense. Luke is clearly a prodigy, but why would he be exactly equal to Vader both in Sabers and the Force at any one point. That in itself makes no sense.
Just saying...
Originally posted by relentless1
those are Lucas' films and any interpretation that conflicts what's in the actual films is wrong; Luke out and out says these things IN FILM
I love George, but his words are irrlevant to Disney's new canon. And I don't remember Luke ever comparing his and Vader's power levels in dialogue. I do remember Vader saying things like "Your skills are complete." and " Indeed you are powerful," however.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ Even in Disney canon, Vader a little after ANH is crushing robotically enhanced Rancors, whilst ROTJ Luke (without his lightsaber) is running from a regular Rancor.
That could easily be explained as Luke hiding his true power from Jabba.
Pretty much everyone in ROTJ accepts that Luke is ready to fight Vader.
Even if you want to say that Vader was conflicted it doesn't mean he wasn't trying to defend himself and while Luke was rage amped he wasn't even able to do that, let alone get an attack in.
Luke gaining that much power in a year doesn't make that much sense, sure, but he still has it, and it would be bias to straight up ignore the evidence, that so far has little contradictions.
