I think it's possible that Vader may have indeed become a better swordsman -- especially given that his power/potential/skill never diminished in canon, and in fact, only continued growing over the years. Conversely, Palpatine never had a reason to continue improving his saber skills after RotS, and aside from Lords of the Sith(which only took place a few years after RotS), I don't know that Palpatine had a need to even use his saber at all over the years.
But in a battle between them, Palpatine would still beat Vader by virtue of being more powerful overall, and possessing abilities that Vader did not.
Dooku is above Obi-Wan by a significant degree in technical and Force ability (to the point where Obi-Wan was a non-factor in fights) and yet Anakin is not able to overcome the latter. This calls his mastery into question.
If you examine Dooku's sword technique, he's clearly toying with Anakin. Anakin's 'win' isn't indicative of his overall power, considering again, Anakin displayed no superior Force powers and had a less than committed opponent who may have thrown the fight. Hell, IIRC, the novelisation or an early screenplay has Dooku call out to Palpatine, basically acknowledging that the fight was being thrown and Dooku would be spared.
If you were betting against a boxing match, that alone would throw results into question.
As for ROTJ Luke, FFS. ROTJ novelization notes (and the movie itself certainly implies) that Vader is toying with Luke in order to turn him and not genuinely trying to kill him in honest combat. Hell, the final fight on the Death Star is pretty much a reflection of the Dooku/Anakin battle in terms of themes. The difference is Luke doesn't give in to his hate and emotion; Anakin does.
ROTJ Luke has minimal real training. Certainly less than a proper Jedi Knight. And Dooku is not only one of the most powerful Jedi masters of the PT era, but onscreen the best technical lightsaber fighter we see. Hell, his stunt coordinator's performance netted its own dueling centric saber style in the Fightsaber article to highlight it. He's got decades of training in Force and sword use; Luke got really mad and hit at his father like Ray Charles swinging at a batter's plate.
Don't confuse that with superiority.
Originally posted by ScizardYou bring up a good point about Maul not being able to beat a mentally stable Kenobi.
Maul can't beat Kenobi when he's mentally stable. Whereas Count Dooku has no problems dealing with Kenobi even when he has Anakin to deal with. Maul cannot replicate the same.
I think people over look that.
Originally posted by Scizard
Maul can't beat Kenobi when he's mentally stable. Whereas Count Dooku has no problems dealing with Kenobi even when he has Anakin to deal with. Maul cannot replicate the same.
"And Luke, let's face it, he was never really the best. I have a notion that anyone on the Council could really kick his butt. He had a lot of heart though, right? He had a lot going for him. And almost it was what he didn't know that made him really dangerous to the Emperor, it's just love for his father -- but he wasn't going to take you out with his lightsaber skills, that was for sure." - Dave Filoni
Now I get the story group makes it their mission to deepthroat Vader and the OT, but I really don't see Luke being anywhere near Dooku's level.
Pretty much.
Jedi vs. Sith (2016) states:
"Father and son were now equally strong with the Force, and equally skilled with their lightsabers."
Granted, they weren't trying to kill each other during RotJ(Vader was trying to turn Luke to the dark, and Luke was trying to turn Vader to the light), but that doesn't change the fact that in canon their power/skill was intended to be equal.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
"And Luke, let's face it, he was never really the best. I have a notion that anyone on the Council could really kick his butt. He had a lot of heart though, right? He had a lot going for him. And almost it was what he didn't know that made him really dangerous to the Emperor, it's just love for his father -- but he wasn't going to take you out with his lightsaber skills, that was for sure." - Dave FiloniNow I get the story group makes it their mission to deepthroat Vader and the OT, but I really don't see Luke being anywhere near Dooku's level.
Woooahhhh new quote for me. What is the source on this? If this is legit, I think this quote may have more weight than the Jedi vs sith quote.
Source:
https://www.ign.com/articles/2012/03/21/star-wars-the-clone-wars-looking-back-at-season-4?page=1
In short, Filoni made that statement back in 2012. Therefore it is Legends, and does not override the canon quote from Jedi vs. Sith.
Originally posted by Galan007So if we can get him to say it again in 2020 it's canon?
Source:
https://www.ign.com/articles/2012/03/21/star-wars-the-clone-wars-looking-back-at-season-4?page=1In short, Filoni made that statement back in 2012. Therefore it is Legends, and does not override the canon quote from Jedi vs. Sith.
Originally posted by Galan007
Source:
https://www.ign.com/articles/2012/03/21/star-wars-the-clone-wars-looking-back-at-season-4?page=1In short, Filoni made that statement back in 2012. Therefore it is Legends, and does not override the canon quote from Jedi vs. Sith.
I see. It does mean something since it's coming from Filoni though. Although I agree, technically not canon. You could make a strong argument that It very well could be and might as well should be canon since it's coming from him.
Originally posted by Galan007
Pretty much.Jedi vs. Sith (2016) states:
"Father and son were now equally strong with the Force, and equally skilled with their lightsabers."Granted, they weren't trying to kill each other during RotJ(Vader was trying to turn Luke to the dark, and Luke was trying to turn Vader to the light), but that doesn't change the fact that in canon their power/skill was intended to be equal.
It wasn't intended to be equal it was retconned to be equal at best. Lucas as the creator's intention was that the PT combatants>OT combatants. To be clear there has been no ruling on the canonicity author statements like George Lucas and Dave Filoni only that published works are Legends.
So no Filoni's comment is just that, commentary on the canon as both TCWs and the OT are canon works. You can argue the canonicity of statements by Filoni and Lucas, but you cannot really argue they are now Legends.
I'd argue that interviews and commentary are part of the director's intent, and the director's intent is just as canon as the canon source itself. Filoni having his hand on pretty much the majority of the visual mediums at this point makes him the canon source at this point. To quote Kathleen Kennedy "there isn’t a thing that we do in the storytelling space that I don’t check with Dave.” My take is statements from authors especially Lucas & Filoni remain canon, but I also understand if that's not a view you share.