Originally posted by Sin I AM
Aren't we using the current most powerful version of the character? If so then the same comic where he uses the mini sun feat is highballed but getting weakened by a black hole is tossed out because consistency. Just not a fan of cherry picking feats no matter how you slice it
Originally posted by darthgoober
That doesn't really hold up Sin, how characters can hold up to blackholes can vary as wildly as anything else in comics. Surfer has multiple instances of not being taken out by blackholes to his credit too(up to and including basically being totally unaffected by them) which would logically take priority in an "at their best" scenario forum fight with a No CIS stipulation.
Is that so? Mind telling us when (only three instances come to mind when he has been ****ed up by Black holes many times)
°That's not to say that I think Surfer necessarily wins or anything like that, just that Surfer deserves the same benefit of a doubt that we'd give Supes if he got trapped in a bear hug without becoming intangible via superspeed to escape. It doesn't mean that their previously established high level of ability has been reduced, it means that interesting stories are what writers are trying to tell.
Randomly calling out Superman.
Originally posted by Ambient
Carver was pretty much on point there as shown by the scans above and as far as using it in combat, I don’t see why he couldn’t. I mean he did that feat casually and with ease, heck his created multiple stars/sun in combat while in a weaken state before, put those two together and we can pretty much conclude blackhole creation in combat.As far as none withstanding blackhole, he and redshift fought inside one - withstanding it is not a problem.
Thanos on the other hand is a beast, against him his got a glass jaw. A well written Surfer could potentially defeat him or an outside energy source he can amp I can see him taking it.
Surfer Star/sun creation from SS black \/\/\/
Originally posted by abhilegend
Several more things from the director's cut of Silver Surfer Black.The black hole was tearing Surfer apart.
Surfer only created a miniature Sun. The light on the planet is from a forgotten sun as the clouds were dispersed.
So much for "chilling in the black holes", eh?
Originally posted by Sin I AM
[
Surfers manipulation of Air Walkers energies is circumstantial. This has been debated to death. Current Surfer who is as close to being this cisless character was owned by a black hole. Those mini suns he created further weakened him...so your argument is that without cis he's gonna spam suns (which weaken him), black holes (which weaken him), ftl speed and spamming blasts?
Are you referencing to GoG #1 and SS Black #1, You've left out a lot of details there Sin. First off it was an ambush and second he left himself open to the forces of blackhole to save every freakin one who was taken of guard and thrown into that blackhole.
https://i.imgur.com/hVtnlZf.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/7LpkDez.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/YODbdtP.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/RjJrA4c.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/4UhVxaB.jpg
As you can see his attention was divided; from keeping everyone safe while in blackhole and finding a way to get everyone out from the inside by tearing said so blackhole to let everyone out.
Here's what he can do when his full attention is on himself defensive and offensively, that should pretty much prove he can withstood blackhole.
You misunderstand why he was weakened in SS Black arc, its not because of spamming multiple sun/star but the lack of ambient energy present within that arc, as in Knull destroyed any semblance of light within that time period therefore no energy present to replenish his PC. That + blackhole + battle = weakened SS.
He was trap for years and weakened inside the blackhole. (withstanding inside blackhole for years)
https://imgur.com/JdT9yqI
https://i.imgur.com/3DBpUrb.jpg
here it shows he replenish himself with Ego energy blast after his reserve run out.
https://imgur.com/BCydAFd
https://imgur.com/mrGFix3
https://imgur.com/TTsMpcK
Point is that you left a lot of detailed information regarding what you claimed.
A CISless Surfer without this disadvantage can very much spam sun/star/blackhole multiple times before running out of PC.
Originally posted by MrMind
no, I've read the issue multiple times. you guys are not understanding the comic correctly, black hole is not the continuiation result of previous scan. I've said it 4 times already, don't make me repeat again.
thanos said the black hole was due to energy discharge of surfer
we see surfer energy expanding when he was escaping from the seekers.
then he was lightyears away, where he killed air-walker
then you see a black hole from far away, where seekers jump out of it. seekers were still at the battlefield, the same battlefield where surfer was exploding white energy, where the black hole was formed2 keys
1. energy discharge- energy discharge didn't happen where lights shoot out of air walker, it happened earlier when surfer released power cosmic
2. seekers survived the black hole, where you see them coming out of the center, seekers were not at where air-walker died, that was light years away.
Silver Surfer Annihilation # 13 - Surfer fights Ravenous..
Silver Surfer Annihilation # 14 - Surfer unleash massive energies that makes the Seekers unable to track them.
Silver Surfer Annihilation #15 - traveled light years away in seconds and stop at a meteorite.
Silver Surfer Annihilation #17 - Surfer put energy time bomb
Silver Surfer Annihilation #18 - Energy bomb explodes while Surfer is flying away, creating a blackhole.
Silver Surfer Annihilation #19 - Thanos explains that blackhole was a side effect of Surfer's energy discharge.
clear and straight to the point, I don't really understand why you are having such a hard time understanding this and what the heck is your argumentation anyway ??? Surfer did not create blackhole???
Originally posted by abhilegend
That was a miniature sun and get this, the black hole was tearing Surfer apart.So much for "chilling in the black holes", eh?
and you do know that even after all the energy he expend helping everyone out of said so blackhole he stayed within for years and then fough freaking Knull and his armies and makin stars/sun. Downplaying that is a Sin Abby ...
Originally posted by h1a8But we have proof it couldn’t take out BRB at great speeds who’s durability/damage soak is far below Thanos.
Reading is fundamentalI never stated it would take out Thanos in one blow.
Now if Surfer increased the speed (>light speed) then Surfer could perhaps do that.And also, Surfer's reflexes would prevent him from getting hit.
You didn't address that.As far as Thanos reacting to Surfer then you have to prove that Surfer was operating at top speeds (FULL CAPACITY). Because even streets reacted to Surfer before in a comic.
You just make shit up, Thanos has tagged and reacted to light speed movement. Surfer has never fought at such speeds plus a omni directional blast from Thanos would floor surfer.
Originally posted by Insane Titan
But we have proof it couldn’t take out BRB at great speeds who’s durability/damage soak is far below Thanos.You just make shit up, Thanos has tagged and reacted to light speed movement. Surfer has never fought at such speeds plus a omni directional blast from Thanos would floor surfer.
What part of battle of attrition you don't understand?
It can definitely take out BRB with enough hits.
It can do the same to Thanos but will take more hits.
If Thanos gets hit with the board traveling at light speed then he's a goner.
Thanos never reacted to light speed movement. Go ahead and post scans of adversaries Telegraphing by pointing their hand or fallen one accelerating from rest and not achieving light speed by the time he reached Thanos.
And Surfer has Shields to protect against omnidirectional blasts.
Although you can't prove that Thanos omnidirectional blasts have enough power to even phase Surfer.
Originally posted by h1a8you need to prove it can take out BRB as shown a sneak attack with the board didn’t bother him. Again you have to prove it would take down Thanos as we know the level of durability he has.
What part of battle of attrition you don't understand?
It can definitely take out BRB with enough hits.
It can do the same to Thanos but will take more hits.
If Thanos gets hit with the board traveling at light speed then he's a goner.Thanos never reacted to light speed movement. Go ahead and post scans of adversaries Telegraphing by pointing their hand or fallen one accelerating from rest and not achieving light speed by the time he reached Thanos.
And Surfer has Shields to protect against omnidirectional blasts.
Although you can't prove that Thanos omnidirectional blasts have enough power to even phase Surfer.
😂 you just trying to lowball now then troll? Fallen one attacked at light speed at got stopped. Ganymede blitzed Surfer at light speeds and tried it to Thanos and get stopped. Along with with reacting to Genis bell and jack of hearts attacking him at their flight speed. Your no limits fallacy doesn’t work, you need to be able to show surfer fighting at the speeds you claim.
Thanos was flooring Thor, Hyperion, Captain Marvel among others with a omni blast. Plus you fail to address the main point Surfer doesn’t have the power to put Thanos down as shown on panel countless times.
Originally posted by h1a8
How can you not know that Surfer created black holes inside beings before? That's basic comic knowledge. Where do you even think we get the whole black hole thing anyway? So now you admit you were wrong about Surfer doing shit I named right? It seems so since you changed the goalposts (it won't succeed). You don't win debates by being wrong and not admitting to your mistakes. You lose credibility that way.Second, how can Surfer gets wreck if he is using light speed reflexes and using his speed and Shields to avoid being hit? Thanos isn't a speedster.
Why wouldn't the board from behind succeed? Surfer can do it over and over and win the battle of attrition with just that tactic only.
And this isn't a comic fight. This is a forum fight where there is no PIS and we have FULL CAPACITY rules.
You're basically arguing Superman or Flash rushing up to their opponents and biting their faces off at light speed.
Can Superman bite? Yes.
Does he have speed? Yes.
Would it win the fight? By laws of attrition with constant chunks of flesh being torn out, Yes.
Would Superman with his intelligence know/assume this? Yes.
So Superman starts every full capacity and no PIS rule match by tearing his opponent's throat out with his teeth? No.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because he still has his character.You're basically arguing Superman or Flash rushing up to their opponents and biting their faces off at light speed.
Can Superman bite? Yes.
Does he have speed? Yes.
Would it win the fight? By laws of attrition with constant chunks of flesh being torn out, Yes.
Would Superman with his intelligence know/assume this? Yes.So Superman starts every full capacity and no PIS rule match by tearing his opponent's throat out with his teeth? No.
You know you are quoting me out of context right?
My post was in response to Sin stating Surfer has never did certain things. It had nothing to do what's in character or not. That can be argued separately.
And although Superman has never bit anyone, he WILL if he knows that's the only way to win.
No one here, as far as I know, has argued things Surfer will do that he didn't already.
If you disagree then kindly show what thing Surfer is stated to do that he never did in a comic.
Originally posted by Insane Titan
you need to prove it can take out BRB as shown a sneak attack with the board didn’t bother him. Again you have to prove it would take down Thanos as we know the level of durability he has.😂 you just trying to lowball now then troll? Fallen one attacked at light speed at got stopped. Ganymede blitzed Surfer at light speeds and tried it to Thanos and get stopped. Along with with reacting to Genis bell and jack of hearts attacking him at their flight speed. Your no limits fallacy doesn’t work, you need to be able to show surfer fighting at the speeds you claim.
Thanos was flooring Thor, Hyperion, Captain Marvel among others with a omni blast. Plus you fail to address the main point Surfer doesn’t have the power to put Thanos down as shown on panel countless times.
Rule: If an attack is shown by the writer to significantly affect a character then enough of those attacks can put them down.
BRB was shown to be significantly affected by the board. It softened him up to Surfer's punches. Otherwise you have to say that Surfer's punching power is greater than Thanos.
Originally posted by h1a8my god you are dense. It did nothing like putting BRB in a position he couldn’t continue the fight. Your point is totally irrelevant as Thanos is far far above BRB in terms of the punishment he can take or even be affected by. You need to prove with on panel proof that Surfer can actually harm Thanos to any degree as on panel proof shows he can’t. And as to your “point” of surfers punches maybe Been stronger than Thanos. Thanos beat the crap out of BRB for fun whilst holding back.
Rule: If an attack is shown by the writer to significantly affect a character then enough of those attacks can put them down.
BRB was shown to be significantly affected by the board. It softened him up to Surfer's punches. Otherwise you have to say that Surfer's punching power is greater than Thanos.
Originally posted by h1a8
You know you are quoting me out of context right?
My post was in response to Sin stating Surfer has never did certain things. It had nothing to do what's in character or not. That can be argued separately.And although Superman has never bit anyone, he WILL if he knows that's the only way to win.
No one here, as far as I know, has argued things Surfer will do that he didn't already.
If you disagree then kindly show what thing Surfer is stated to do that he never did in a comic.
I think the quibble at this point is creating black holes within combat. Just like Superman hasn't bit anyone in combat (but has bitten things before, just not in a combat role).
