Kylo Ren Respect Thread

Started by Galan00710 pages
Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Not really Palps coming back at the time doesn’t ruin any prophecy cause Lucas hadn’t come up with that yet, all Vader did was save his son from an evil Emperor. I mean yeah it does later when the PT came out, but not intentional since Tom couldn’t see the future. Which is why I give DE a pass, unlike the ST in that regard which doesn’t have an excuse to bring him back.

^ To Galan, dumb editing system...

Oh yeah, canon did it a LOT worse. I'm just saying that when the Chosen One prophecy was introduced, it created a retroactive retcon of sorts within Legends. So even in Legends, things were never properly balanced by Anakin(for any significant amount of time, at least), as Palpatine was never really "gone" and actually returned decades sooner than he did in canon.

Originally posted by Darthadi
Yes, but Anakin seems special even among them since he is the only one with a many thousands year old prophecy about him and the only one the Father said that can replace him on Mortis.
Prophecies aside, what actually made Anakin "special" was the fact that he was born with a supremely high midi-chlorian count(which gave him off-the-charts potential.) That's why he was able to tap into the Mortis nexus and "tame" the Son and Daughter... A feat only someone with his power/potential could have achieved.

This doesn't preclude the notion that other Force users(especially those who stem from the Skywalker bloodline) could have a potential that was just as vast.

Don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily like it... But it does seem like that's what canon is indicating, imo. /shrug

Darthadi Senior Member

The Father said that Anakin was the only one who can.

xPRIMEx Senior Member

Originally posted by Darthadi
That would be dumb tho. Makes the whole chosen one prophecy and Mortis stuff look super cheap and insignificant.

Not really. Just because they inherited his potential doesn’t change the fact that he’s still the chosen one and they aren’t.

xPRIMEx Senior Member

They are his descendants so it only makes sense that they would inherit his potential power. He’s still special because he was created by the force, he didn’t inherit that power from anyone but the force itself.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by Darthadi
The Father said that Anakin was the only one who can.
He was. No other Jedi or Sith could have duplicated that feat at the time(during TCW, Anakin's potential > ALL.)

But the question becomes: could characters who, in all likelihood, possess the same potential as Anakin(ie. Kylo and Rey) have done the same thing? Obviously most people would be hesitant to say yes... But I'm not really sure anymore. /shrug

Darthadi Senior Member

xPRIMEx
Yes, but by making others have the same potential as him, Anakin would completly lose what made him the chosen one (since bringing balance was already cheapened by the ST).

Darthadi Senior Member

Originally posted by Galan007
He was. No other Jedi or Sith could have duplicated that feat at the time(during TCW, Anakin's potential > ALL.)

But the question becomes: could characters who, in all likelihood, possess the same potential as Anakin(ie. Kylo and Rey) have done the same thing? Obviously most people would be hesitant to say yes... But I'm not really sure anymore. /shrug

The only time the Father brought someone to Mortis was to test if they have enough potential to take his place. Anakin was the only one who did it. The Father said that only the chosen one can do it. So noone in history before Anakin was able to do that. There is a reason why The Father waited tousands of years for the chosen one of the prophesy specifically to be found.

Mortis also exists outside time and the ones can see into the future and yet, the Father was convinced that only Anakin can.

This is why I think that all the Skywalker potential quotes refer just to huge potential in general that likely only a Skywalker can have (so above 99.99%of force users), but not necessarly on par with the chosen one himself. After all, Anakin's name is not droped in any of these quotes, only the fsmily name.

xPRIMEx Senior Member

Originally posted by Darthadi
xPRIMEx
Yes, but by making others have the same potential as him, Anakin would completly lose what made him the chosen one (since bringing balance was already cheapened by the ST).

I’d agree with you if anyone other than a Skywalker had his same potential, but I think it makes sense for his descendants to have it.

xPRIMEx Senior Member

Like I don’t think Rey should have the same potential, for example.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by Darthadi
The only time the Father brought someone to Mortis was to test if they are potential enough to take his place. Anakin was the only one who did it. The Father said that only the chosen one can do it. So noone in history before Anakin was able to do that.

Mortis also exists outside time and the ones can see into the future and yet, the Father was convinced that [B]only Anakin can.

This is why I think that all the Skywalker potential quotes refer just to huge potential in general that likely only a Skywalker can have, but not necessarly on par with the chosen one himself. After all, Anakin's name is not droped in any of these quotes, only the fsmily name. [/B]

I agree that no one in recorded history(outside of The Ones themselves) had a potential that was on par with Anakin's as of TCW -- he was indeed the only other being capable of taming the Son and Daughter at the time... But again, this doesn't preclude the notion that some of the 'haxx potential' characters who surfaced later(ie. Luke/Leia/Kylo/Rey) might've had a potential that was on par with Anakin's.

It doesn't seem like said potential is necessarily unique to Anakin anymore, and can be passed down the bloodline.

Darthadi Senior Member

Originally posted by Galan007
I agree that no one in recorded history(outside of The Ones themselves) had a potential that was on par with Anakin's as of TCW -- he was indeed the only other being capable of taming the Son and Daughter at the time... But again, this doesn't preclude the notion that some of the 'haxx potential' characters who surfaced later(ie. Luke/Leia/Kylo/Rey) might've had a potential that was on par with Anakin's.

It doesn't seem like said potential is necessarily unique to Anakin anymore.


As I said, Mortis exists outside of time and the Ones can see into the future, so The Father would know about these other force users and yet, he was sure that only the chosen one can and was desperate to keep him on Mortis.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by xPRIMEx
Like I don’t think Rey should have the same potential, for example.
I think that plays more into the cosmic Force/dyad concept: ie. "Darkness rises and light to meet it... I warned my young apprentice that as he grew stronger, his equal in the light would rise."

Balance and all that. /shrug

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by Darthadi
As I said, Mortis exists outside of time and the Ones can see into the future, so The Father would know about these other force users and yet, he was sure that only the chosen one can and was desperate to keep him on Mortis.
Not sure how reliable The Father's 'future sight' was, tbh. He seemed uncertain about a great many things that happened during the Mortis trilogy, and gave no indication that the events played out as he had intended(I don't think the Father brought Anakin to Mortis with the underlying goal of he and his children being killed, for example.)

It's also possible that the Father didn't have enough time to wait for another replacement to surface, because he was already "dying" as of the Mortis trilogy. /shrug

Darthadi Senior Member

Originally posted by Galan007
Not sure how reliable The Father's 'future sight' was, tbh. He seemed uncertain about a great many things that happened during the Mortis trilogy, and gave no indication that the events played out as he had intended(I don't think the Father brought Anakin to Mortis with the underlying goal of he and his children being killed, for example.)

It's also possible that the Father didn't have enough time to wait for another replacement to surface, because he was already "dying" as of the Mortis trilogy. /shrug

He didn't knew about what would happen on Mortis because they likely can only see the future of non Mortis beings. This probably has to do with Mortis being outside time. We know that the ones know about Anakin's future so they know he would have kids.

The Father lived for thousands/millions of years. I find it very unlikely that he couldn't wait a few more decades. Close to death might mean hundreds/thousands of years for him. In TCW he didn't looked like he was about to die anytime soon.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by Darthadi
He didn't knew about what would happen on Mortis because they likely can only see the future of non Mortis beings. This probably has to do with Mortis being outside time. We know that the ones know about Anakin's future so they know he would have kids.

The Father lived for thousands/millions of years. I find it very unlikely that he couldn't wait a few more decades. Close to death might mean hundreds/thousands of years for him. In TCW he didn't looked like he was about to die anytime soon.

Or he could have literally been at death's door... Or at the very least close enough to dying that he wouldn't have been powerful enough to keep his Children in check for much longer(especially with the growing darkness/imbalance within the material realm at the time, which would have fed the Son)... Hence the eagerness for Anakin to replace him.

Just throwing out some possibilities. srug

At any rate, it does seem like the implication is that the potential of the Skywalker bloodline is passed down/inherited by the subsequent generations. I doubt they really care how well that concept meshes with the Mortis trilogy, and/or the Chosen One prophecy at this point... Wouldn't exactly be the worst thing canon has done to the mythos, lol.

Darthadi Senior Member

I would agree with you if any of the quotes said they have Anakin's potential, but his name is not droped in any quote. Thus, (and considering the Mortis stuff) I think the more likely interpretation for the "Skywalker potential quotes" is that Anakin's descendants have huge potential like you would expect from the daughter/son/grandson of the chosen one (and above 99,99% of other force users), but still less than Anakin himself.

I think it make sense that the blood will be diluted in time. Just imagine if the line didn't ended in TROS. In 1000 years the galaxy could had hundreds of beings with Father level potential?

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

So when Palpatine mused that he could propel Luke to reach the "TRUE potential of his bloodline", what do you think was meant by that? Because my interpretation of the quote is that Luke had the potential to become what Anakin was meant to be... What else would "true potential" be in reference to in this context?

Same with Rey being referred to as an "unprecedented Force prodigy", and Kylo being indicated as her equal. Meshes with Luke's line about them having the most raw power that he'd ever felt.

xPRIMEx Senior Member

Your interpretation is completely valid. It just sounds to me like the Skywalker potential was passed down to Luke, Leia, and Kylo.

Darthadi Senior Member

Originally posted by Galan007
So when Palpatine mused that he could propel Luke to reach the "TRUE potential of his bloodline", what do you think was meant by that? Because my interpretation of the quote is that Luke had the potential to become what Anakin was meant to be... What else would "true potential" be in reference to in this context?

My interpretation is that Luke being the son of the chosen one (so a Skywalker) had enormous potential and can became what his father was meant to be in the sense that he can surpass the emperor which suit Vader aparently can't. The true potential of his bloodline in Luke's case might not mean Anakin level, but still more than enough for Sidious.

Having Skywalker potential is a way to say enormous potential since even diluted by a generation or two, the potential would still be greater than pretty much anyone else (maybe with some odd exceptions like Rey because of the dyad)

Same with Rey being referred to as an "unprecedented Force prodigy", and Kylo being indicated as her equal. Meshes with Luke's line about them having the most raw power that he'd ever felt.

Rey's unprecedented potential quote is from the insider. Matt Martin said that the insiders are not reviewed by the story group and are editorial like the blog section on Starwars.com. So the quote doesn't have much canon value.
You are right that Luke's quote likely refers to potential, but it's unclear if he refers to everyone he ever met or only his students (the context was him teaching Rey), and he never met Anakin pre Mustafar anyway. ROTJ Luke is also not the most masterful force user so i don't know how good he was at sensing raw power back then.

This is possibly proof of Vader losing potential after Mustafar btw.

Darthadi Senior Member

Obviously I'm not saying that my interpretation is the only valid one.
I'm just inclined towards it because of the Mortis stuff.