Sex Changes

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Plus, the suicide rate post Op, is extremely high.

People shouldnt be encouranged to switch sexes which is actually impossible, your chromosomes never change.

I don't know if Eon wanted us to go on this tangent in this thread, but, the argument is that gender is different from sex. The goal isn't to literally change chromosomes.

...although, it's conceivable that will be possible in the future.

Originally posted by meep-meep
I don't mean to come off as uncaring, or naive. What does gastric bypass surgery have to do with changing ones genitals? I'm in full support of having a universal Medicare system for emergency situations. I don't think gender reassignment falls in that category.

Yeah, understandable, that's a commonly held belief. I think there's two main ways that some people differ with your view a) many people believe that universal medicare should go far beyond emergency situations, including all sorts of preventative and even lifestyle medical interventions and b) trans rights advocates in particular would argue that it does fall into emergency situation anyways, for that you have to accept the view that in particular gender dysphoria is a valid medical problem, that can lead to immense emotional pain, crippling depression and suicide. I understand if that's not convincing to you, but it is certainly a view that exists among medical professionals as well.

As for the gastric bypass surgery, that was just an example of where the reasoning is similar.

I've encountered a handful of individuals who were pretty clearly taking hormones to fit their gender. I'll admit, I have always been taken aback for a half of a second. Barely enough time for almost anyone to recognize. It's totally reactionary, and not meant in malice. Never had problems. Goog people are good people.

Originally posted by Artol
Yeah, understandable, that's a commonly held belief. I think there's two main ways that some people differ with your view a) many people believe that universal medicare should go far beyond emergency situations, including all sorts of preventative and even lifestyle medical interventions and b) trans rights advocates in particular would argue that it does fall into emergency situation anyways, for that you have to accept the view that in particular gender dysphoria is a valid medical problem, that can lead to immense emotional pain, crippling depression and suicide. I understand if that's not convincing to you, but it is certainly a view that exists among medical professionals as well.

As for the gastric bypass surgery, that was just an example of where the reasoning is similar.

Gotcha. I understand your reasoning now. I do disagree that crippling depression due to whatever circumstances should be covered by tax funded programs. I realize that sounds callous. Mom's, dad's, brothers and sisters should recognize when one of their own needs emotional support. If a girl wants to be a boy or the other way around, a good family will recognize that and raise them right to reach that goal.

Crappy families that can't take care of their own shouldn't have to burden their neighbors with non emergency surgeries.

Hmm, yeah I see your point of view, a strong familial bond, or a social network generally, goes a long way.

I guess to me there's a lot of things that it can't cover and that I think is better if they are covered not just because of like emotional "I want this poor people not to suffer" reasons (although those are important to me), but solely from a mere cost-benefit analysis for society as well.

If they can point to some kind of legit medical test that proves they were born in the wrong bodies, sure. otherwise it sounds like a psychological problem, where we should be encouraging therapy.

Artol
Right there with you. Nobody should have to suffer. Everyone needs help. A strong social network, outside of family is just as good. Sometimes it's better.

Originally posted by Silent Master
If they can point to some kind of legit medical test that proves they were born in the wrong bodies, sure. otherwise it sounds like a psychological problem, where we should be encouraging therapy.

True.

Good posts, guys. Looks like despite personal views and opinions there happens to be some compassionate common ground.

Originally posted by Eon Blue
Should men looking to be women and vice versa be encouraged or even allowed to cut their body parts off which causes irreparable damage to their bodies and mental stability solely on their feelings etc?

Why do you hate freedom?

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Why do you hate freedom?

Why do you hate free speech, which is a form of freedom?

Originally posted by Eon Blue
Why do you hate free speech, which is a form of freedom?

How is your speech being limited?

How is voicing a statement an impediment or an imagined sleight to freedom?

Originally posted by Eon Blue
How is voicing a statement an impediment or an imagined sleight to freedom?

Originally posted by Eon Blue
Should men looking to be women and vice versa be encouraged or even allowed to cut their body parts off which causes irreparable damage to their bodies and mental stability solely on their feelings etc?

The entire premise of your post is about limiting the rights of individuals to do what they wish with their own bodies.

You got called out on it, and then cried that your freedom of speech was being abridged, even though no one, least of all the government, tried to censor you.

What you were complaining about is that someone else exercised their freedom of speech in response, and you did not like it.

Grow up, kid.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
The entire premise of your post is about limiting the rights of individuals to do what they wish with their own bodies.

You got called out on it, and then cried that your freedom of speech was being abridged, even though no one, least of all the government, tried to censor you.

What you were complaining about is that someone else exercised their freedom of speech in response, and you did not like it.

Grow up, kid.

How is that not an individual exercising their freedom or speech? Perhaps you aren’t one that’s privy to details since you haven’t read the posts from myself or several other members and instead choose to harp on with selective hearing, or “reading” in this case.

This is an open forum, not a say all, be all type of environment. Allowance is a vague term and subject to a myriad of scrutiny, tests, etc. the fact that I’m being open minded about this and you are not speaks volumes on your subjective and fallacious opinion. Try harder, boy. I love how triggered you get. 🙂

Originally posted by Eon Blue
How is that not an individual exercising their freedom or speech?

No one stated it was not, you little crybaby. What is at issue is you crying that your freedom of speech was being abridged, because someone else exercised their freedom of speech in response.

Originally posted by Eon Blue
Perhaps you aren’t one that’s privy to details since you haven’t read the posts from myself or several other members and instead choose to harp on with selective hearing, or “reading” in this case.

This is an open forum, not a say all, be all type of environment. Allowance is a vague term and subject to a myriad of scrutiny, tests, etc. the fact that I’m being open minded about this and you are not speaks volumes on your subjective and fallacious opinion. Try harder, boy. I love how triggered you get.

allow verb[/] To permit: To [i]allow one to alter his body.

By all means, provide a more charitible definition of the term that does not follow "subject permits object."

But do not try too hard, because you already gave your position away on who should be allowed to do what:

Originally posted by Eon Blue
I feel like issues like these should be observed as a case by case basis and shouldn’t all be treated in a homogeneous fashion; Jill may wake up one day feeling like a boy at a young age, but may very quickly outgrow said feeling, therefore never having required surgeries or hormones in the first place. If Jill opted to act purely on her emotions, irreplaceable damage would have taken place leading down a much darker path than initially perceived. I’m vehemently opposed to diagnosing anyone under the legal age with transgenderism and I believe it’s honestly a detriment to our youth to place that burden.

I’m of the stance that it should be allowed if there is a marked history where the individual would mentally show improvement, but cases like this need to be severely observed and notated by medical professionals. Jack shouldn’t be allowed to remove his genitals just because of his incorrect and misplaced emotions.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
No one stated it was not, you little crybaby. What is at issue is you crying that your freedom of speech was being abridged, because someone else exercised their freedom of speech in response.

[b]allow verb[/] To permit: To [i]allow one to alter his body.

By all means, provide a more charitible definition of the term that does not follow "subject permits object."

But do not try too hard, because you already gave your position away on who should be allowed to do what: [/B]

You clearly lack reading comprehension and are inanely vitriolic in your end goal here, which happens to be unclear. You love to make matters more than what they are at their core principle.

Keep on quoting mindlessly without clear purpose, idiot.

Originally posted by Eon Blue
You clearly lack reading comprehension and are inanely vitriolic in your end goal here, which happens to be unclear. You love to make matters more than what they are at their core principle.

Keep on quoting mindlessly without clear purpose, idiot.

I am not seeing a rebuttal.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
I am not seeing a rebuttal.

I am not seeing an argument worth a rebuttal.

Originally posted by Eon Blue
I am not seeing an argument worth a rebuttal.

You must have missed it. Here you go:

Originally posted by Adam_PoE

allow verb To permit: To allow one to alter his body.

By all means, provide a more charitible definition of the term that does not follow "subject permits object."

But do not try too hard, because you already gave your position away on who should be allowed to do what:

Originally posted by Eon Blue

I feel like issues like these should be observed as a case by case basis and shouldn’t all be treated in a homogeneous fashion; Jill may wake up one day feeling like a boy at a young age, but may very quickly outgrow said feeling, therefore never having required surgeries or hormones in the first place. If Jill opted to act purely on her emotions, irreplaceable damage would have taken place leading down a much darker path than initially perceived. I’m vehemently opposed to diagnosing anyone under the legal age with transgenderism and I believe it’s honestly a detriment to our youth to place that burden.

I’m of the stance that it should be allowed if there is a marked history where the individual would mentally show improvement, but cases like this need to be severely observed and notated by medical professionals. Jack shouldn’t be allowed to remove his genitals just because of his incorrect and misplaced emotions.