Originally posted by Surtur
The narrative from most on the left wasn't merely that Russians were trying to help Trump. Rather it was that Trump was actively colluding with the Russians and that their aide was responsible for him winning the election.Except neither of those things have been proven to be true.
Annnnnd, the Russians put out just as much pro-Bernie/pro-Hillary/anti-Trump propaganda as they did Pro-Trump/anti-Hillary. And, the few ads that they did put out had literally zero effect on changing any votes. Anyone who doesn't admit this isn't to be taken seriously.
Also, Obama knew in the middle of 2016 campaign that the Russians were doing these things but yet he said and did nothing. He expected Hillary to win and didn't want to cast doubt on her victory if she did in fact win.
If she had won (as scary as that thought is) we would've never heard anything about "Russian interference", guaranteed.
Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Annnnnd, the Russians put out just as much pro-Bernie/pro-Hillary/anti-Trump propaganda as they did Pro-Trump/anti-Hillary. And, the few ads that they did put out had literally zero effect on changing any votes. Anyone who doesn't admit this isn't to be taken seriously.Also, Obama knew in the middle of 2016 campaign that the Russians were doing these things but yet he said and did nothing. He expected Hillary to win and didn't want to cast doubt on her victory if she did in fact win.
If she had won (as scary as that thought is) we would've never heard anything about "Russian interference", guaranteed.
Yup, even some within our own intelligence communities pushed back on the idea Russia specifically wanted Trump to win. Some thought they did, some weren't convinced.
Remember the "but 17 intelligence agencies say so!" lie?
Originally posted by Surtur
At this point you're basically saying "2+2=4, prove me wrong". It's not possible to do. They can't show Trump working with Putin. Nor can they show Russia is responsible for Trump winning.
If they tried to do that they would undermine their news system, so hilariously they won't step up because it would literally undermine our democracy as well🙂 😉
Can we agree on russian military/espionage strategy ? That only 15-20% of their total defense budget is spent on traditional warfare, the rest is spent on propaganda/misinformation efforts, this has been true since the 80s and as a policy reenforced by putin, beginning in 2012, after a corrupt power switching tactic with medvedev.
Another thing we can agree on is that one of the cornerstones of russian military strategy is the works of alex dugin, who wrote of using particular geopolitical strategies, in his 1993 book the foundations of geopolitics, to position russia as a world power, and to do this in america would involve using extremist poltical groups, with opposing ideologies, against themselves. This can be seen being executed in the example of maria butina, a russian spy, honey potting the head of the nra, one of America's biggest most powerful political lobbiest groups, and with the political separatism and divsionism stoked through social media via the internet research agency, a russian troll farm which had 35 million dollars of state money, although it was probably not marked as such and funneled through a russian oligarch, pumped into it, as an escalating pace between 2016 and 2017.
Putin has without a doubt said trump winning the prsidency is good for him.
Another way to confirm the foundations of geopolitics line of logic is to look at russias goal with the uk, which is to cut them off from the u.n. for a divide and conquer style defeat, this was accomplished through brexit, and it has now come to surface that the election of johnson was interfered in by the russians.
Originally posted by Surtur
Intelligence agencies disagreed on if he wanted Trump or not.I think he wanted chaos. And yes Russia is shady all that, I can't disagree.
I just don't think Trump was working hand in hand with them.
I disagree on the claim about intelligence agencies, but im looking into, maybe link me your source if you dont mind,.
But we're cool on everything else.