The GDF Septic Tank (Official Off Topic)

Originally posted by Artol
I think having a kid can certainly make it significantly harder to succeed in your goals, especially if your circumstances were already not very favorable.

In theory I do agree that we should do things to decrease abortion, while keeping them easily accessible anyways. Things like government child support, a strong welfare state, a good foster care system availability of free, good childcare facilities, availability of free contraception and good, mandatory sexual education in schools.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
I'm going to disagree and say having kids focuses you. You want them to have more so you have an impetus to succeed. I've put two of my five kids through college, the youngest from my second is deffering a year and going in 2021. You work for you families. I do think abortion is a woman's right though. However in a marriage or secure long term relationship she needs to justify it with more than, my career.

This is where men def have an advantage and why we see so many single parent households struggling. If a woman has no partner and is the bread winner as well it becomes increasingly difficult for them to play all the roles required. Kinda where the focus part and success becomes infinetly harder for single parents. We all only have 24 hours in a day.

Anyway not disagreeing with you just adding that I can see where a single parent would make a choice of "career" over child in that circumstance.

You already clarified the 2 parent instance 😄

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
I'm going to disagree and say having kids focuses you. You want them to have more so you have an impetus to succeed. I've put two of my five kids through college, the youngest from my second is deffering a year and going in 2021. You work for you families. I do think abortion is a woman's right though. However in a marriage or secure long term relationship she needs to justify it with more than, my career.

It certainly can be a motivating factor, but if you are at a disadvantageous situation it can also really lessen your chances of social upward mobility significantly. I think we can see that statistically with how badly affected by poverty single mothers are for example.

I also don't think that anyone, even in a relationship, should have to justify it legally, socially of course, you do have to justify your decisions with your partner or they might opt out of the relationship altogether, but I don't think a partner should get a legal say in whether someone has to carry a pregnancy to term.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
I'm going to disagree and say having kids focuses you. You want them to have more so you have an impetus to succeed. I've put two of my five kids through college, the youngest from my second is deffering a year and going in 2021. You work for you families. I do think abortion is a woman's right though. However in a marriage or secure long term relationship she needs to justify it with more than, my career.

I agree with you, but pretty sure they don't think she has to justify anything, for any reason. 🙂

I've said this many times by now, but I can never see the distinction between smothering a baby in a crib or killing the fetus. Dead is dead after all.

Put another way, if you were shot in the street, was in a coma in a hospital and had the plug pulled on life support in a hospital, or were killed in your crib, you wouldn't be with us now. The details don't matter, from where you're standing.

In essence, I suppose I see condoning abortion as condoning that at some point of my existence, someone had the right to kill me. It doesn't matter that laws regarding a fetus can not affect a person who can ponder such matters. I'm not the sort who can think "This situation doesn't affect me." Rather, I think "This was me", or "This could have been me", or "What if I was this unlucky".

Empathy is the core of my liberal beliefs. I think how I'd feel, if I was in someone else's situation, and whether I'd condone such a thing happening to "me", even if such a thing never could happen to me.

I have no problem with abortion, but if the woman can f*ck around and then shirk all responsibility for that child men should have the option to shirk responsibility as well. Since the man isn't the one carrying the child the only way for him to shirk responsibility would be to not be on the hook for child support, etc.

Her body her choice, his money his choice. Anything else is just hypocrisy.

Originally posted by Surtur
I have no problem with abortion, but if the woman can f*ck around and then shirk all responsibility for that child men should have the option to shirk responsibility as well. Since the man isn't the one carrying the child the only way for him to shirk responsibility would be to not be on the hook for child support, etc.

Her body her choice, his money his choice. Anything else is just hypocrisy.

I agree, I believe that children are the responsibility of the community. So if a father doesn’t want to have anything to do with the child, I do think that hey should be able to give up their rights and responsibilities, however the state should ensure that the child and the parent that is in charge of the child are taken care off sufficiently.

Originally posted by cdtm
I agree with you, but pretty sure they don't think she has to justify anything, for any reason. 🙂

I've said this many times by now, but I can never see the distinction between smothering a baby in a crib or killing the fetus. Dead is dead after all.

Put another way, if you were shot in the street, was in a coma in a hospital and had the plug pulled on life support in a hospital, or were killed in your crib, you wouldn't be with us now. The details don't matter, from where you're standing.

In essence, I suppose I see condoning abortion as condoning that at some point of my existence, someone had the right to kill me. It doesn't matter that laws regarding a fetus can not affect a person who can ponder such matters. I'm not the sort who can think "This situation doesn't affect me." Rather, I think "This was me", or "This could have been me", or "What if I was this unlucky".

Empathy is the core of my liberal beliefs. I think how I'd feel, if I was in someone else's situation, and whether I'd condone such a thing happening to "me", even if such a thing never could happen to me.

Do you sometimes apply that empathy to the woman who is pregnant as well? Why she might want or need an abortion?

Her body her choice, his money his choice. Anything else is just hypocrisy.

All the sympathy in the world for the mommy but poor daddy is an after thought until it comes time to pay up

🐰

Originally posted by Scribble
Anyone who embraces the concept of the potential of the individual should be anti-abortion as a general rule (not including health reasons), otherwise you do not truly believe in the potential of the individual.

Originally posted by Artol
Do you sometimes apply that empathy to the woman who is pregnant as well? Why she might want or need an abortion?

Of course I do,100%.

This is why I completely understand the pro choice side, and empathise with it. Aside from questions of autonomy, dignity, and mental well being, children are an expensive and life long commitment.

On the other hand, the "problem" in question had no say in the matter, and has as much a right to exist and argue on the internet as you and I do.

I can no more argue pro choice, then I could smothering a baby in the womb. For me, the definition of "human life" is an academic one. For all practical purposes, it simply doesn't matter when you terminate a life. Not to the being in question. These are issues only to those salving their own guilt.

That doesn't make me feel particularly good arguing against another beings suffering.

Originally posted by snowdragon
This is where men def have an advantage and why we see so many single parent households struggling. If a woman has no partner and is the bread winner as well it becomes increasingly difficult for them to play all the roles required. Kinda where the focus part and success becomes infinetly harder for single parents. We all only have 24 hours in a day.

Anyway not disagreeing with you just adding that I can see where a single parent would make a choice of "career" over child in that circumstance.

You already clarified the 2 parent instance 😄

Originally posted by Artol
It certainly can be a motivating factor, but if you are at a disadvantageous situation it can also really lessen your chances of social upward mobility significantly. I think we can see that statistically with how badly affected by poverty single mothers are for example.

I also don't think that anyone, even in a relationship, should have to justify it legally, socially of course, you do have to justify your decisions with your partner or they might opt out of the relationship altogether, but I don't think a partner should get a legal say in whether someone has to carry a pregnancy to term.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You're free to have any opinion you want, thanks for letting everyone know what kind of person you are.

An entirely consistent person who holds you to your own standards.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The guy is in favor of forced sterilization, are you really surprised?

Silent Master does not like following his beliefs to their logical conclusion. "Rules for thee, but not for me" is his motto.

Originally posted by Scribble
Adam is only against transphobia where it serves his tribe, which is always fascinating.

As opposed to you, who is only against her tribe when it comes to transphobia. And even then, she cannot even muster up a condemnation of them. Full-throated disdain for micro-agressions from the left, but nary a peep about bald transphobia from the right. That is because she is indoctrinated by Jesus and Jordan Peterson, and is too afraid to transition, because it will make her a degenerate to her tribe.

Originally posted by Artol
I agree, I believe that children are the responsibility of the community. So if a father doesn’t want to have anything to do with the child, I do think that hey should be able to give up their rights and responsibilities, however the state should ensure that the child and the parent that is in charge of the child are taken care off sufficiently.

Agreed.

There is also a disconnect about whether or not a fetus is alive with some people. Some believe abortion is not murder, but also believe that if someone attacks a pregnant woman and she miscarries that the person should be charged with murder.

Yet if it's not alive you can't murder it, so in that situation the attacker should be charged with assault and destruction of property.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Silent Master does not like following his beliefs to their logical conclusion. "Rules for thee, but not for me" is his motto.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
"Rules for thee, but not for me" is his motto.

So you're accusing him of being a democrat now?

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Silent Master does not like following his beliefs to their logical conclusion. "Rules for thee, but not for me" is his motto.

Lying about my beliefs isn't going to fool anyone.

Originally posted by Scribble
I do not think masturbation is anything to brag about, or celebrate, but it is entirely one-sided. The fusion of male and female to create a new human being is the miraculous aspect, to put it in religious terms.

Once that process is set in motion, I do not think it is moral to stop it, other than for various health reasons I have mentioned before. For example, if a mother knows that giving birth to a child will kill her, then that is her right to decide whether or not to pay that price.

That blows your entire "potential" argument out of the water. Every sperm and every egg has the same exact potential. If you prevent the process from even starting, by your reasoning, it would be just as bad as stopping it once it has started. Masturbation and birth control would be just as bad morally under your system.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
That blows your entire "potential" argument out of the water. Every sperm and every egg has the same exact potential. If you prevent the process from even starting, by your reasoning, it would be just as bad as stopping it once it has started. Masturbation and birth control would be just as bad morally under your system.

No, every viable zygote, in the uterus of a healthy-enough woman, has that potential.