This is where I get confused.
Originally posted by RobtardOkay, so biologically, people are born male or female, with a few exceptions. I agree.
You're still conflating gender with biology and biological sex. You really shouldn't do that.People are generally born either male (XY) or female (XX), setting aside the rare genetic anomalies where someone has both traits. This relates to biological sex.
Gender and gender roles are defined by society/cultures and are subject to change. Throughout history there's been cultures with more than two genders and gender roles.
You've seen gender roles change in your own society within your lifetime with men staying home to be the homemaker and the women going out to work/earn. Where traditionally that tends to be the opposite. Now you're saying the homemaker is not traditionally a male role and women in work is not the traditional female role. I somewhat agree with you as they're not traditional, but the confusion comes from this social construction of "gender" and "gender-roles." Does that mean that my mother was a male because she went to work? Or is a stay-at-home husband a woman? If you're just going to make it up, you're complicating so many issues that happened over the last century.
Why a transwoman can be a woman in regards to gender, but is still a biological male.I'll go by biology.
Originally posted by Blakemore
This is where I get confused. Okay, so biologically, people are born male or female, with a few exceptions. I agree.Now you're saying the homemaker is not traditionally a male role and women in work is not the traditional female role. I somewhat agree with you as they're not traditional, but the confusion comes from this social construction of "gender" and "gender-roles." Does that mean that my mother was a male because she went to work? Or is a stay-at-home husband a woman? If you're just going to make it up, you're complicating so many issues that happened over the last century.
I'll go by biology.
You won't get him to engage you.
I've tried this many times, and it always results in a toxic conversation.
We are simply expected to accept whatever the big think activists argue, and are not allowed to criticisms, let alone rejecting concepts outright. Even ala-cart taking some things and leaving others is considered unacceptable.
You're either on board or you're part of the problem.
Good way to get a base good and angry at the expense of alienating literally everyone else.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/02/200205084203.htm
Gene variants provide insight into brain, body incongruence in transgender
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/
Contrary to popular belief, scientific research helps us better understand the unique and real transgender experience. Specifically, through three subjects: (1) genetics, (2) neurobiology and (3) endocrinology. So, hold onto your parts, whatever they may be. It’s time for “the talk.â€
Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!Okay, I'm reading it. "whether the brain is masculine or feminine," so is it right to assume humans have masculine and feminine brains? What would they even be?
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/02/200205084203.htmGene variants provide insight into brain, body incongruence in transgender
"Variants investigators identified may mean that in natal males (people whose birth sex is male) this critical estrogen exposure doesn't happen or the pathway is altered so the brain does not get masculinized. In natal females, it may mean that estrogen exposure happens when it normally wouldn't, leading to masculinization." So it's like a hormone thing after birth. That, I can wrap my head around.
"It doesn't matter which sex organs you have, it's whether estrogen, or androgen, which is converted to estrogen in the brain, masculinizes the brain during this critical period," says Dr. Lawrence C. Layman, chief of the MCG Section of Reproductive Endocrinology, Infertility and Genetics in the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology. "We have found variants in genes that are important in some of these different areas of the brain."Now I'm confused again. Genes change in early development based on their environment. This doesn't mean a biological woman or a biological man is a trans-male or trans-female just because they have different interests. The truth is, most children really don't give a shit.
Originally posted by Blakemorebasically the wiring of the brain is triggered by hormonal release at different points in development, genes ghrough protein synthesis control this. Female hormonal release causes a female like brain. The uptake of hormones can also be a possible issue. We will see. Biology doesn't lie.
Okay, I'm reading it. "whether the brain is masculine or feminine," so is it right to assume humans have masculine and feminine brains? What would they even be?"Variants investigators identified may mean that in natal males (people whose birth sex is male) this critical estrogen exposure doesn't happen or the pathway is altered so the brain does not get masculinized. In natal females, it may mean that estrogen exposure happens when it normally wouldn't, leading to masculinization." So it's like a hormone thing after birth. That, I can wrap my head around.
Now I'm confused again. Genes change in early development based on their environment. This doesn't mean a biological woman or a biological man is a trans-male or trans-female just because they have different interests. The truth is, most children really don't give a shit.
Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
basically the wiring of the brain is triggered by hormonal release at different points in development, genes ghrough protein synthesis control this. Female hormonal release causes a female like brain. The uptake of hormones can also be a possible issue. We will see. Biology doesn't lie.
In that case wouldn't puberty blockers interrupt this process, whereby a child's inclinations may have been resolved if allowed to mature fully?
How can a child even understand concepts like sexual identity in the first place?
Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!Genes develop based on the environment too. In early human development some genes may turn on and off depending on the environment even after birth.
basically the wiring of the brain is triggered by hormonal release at different points in development, genes ghrough protein synthesis control this. Female hormonal release causes a female like brain. The uptake of hormones can also be a possible issue. We will see. Biology doesn't lie.
Originally posted by BlakemoreGene expression particularly for simple traits can be affected by the environment. That's not what's indicated here though.
Genes develop based on the environment too. In early human development some genes may turn on and off depending on the environment even after birth.
Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
basically the wiring of the brain is triggered by hormonal release at different points in development, genes ghrough protein synthesis control this. Female hormonal release causes a female like brain. The uptake of hormones can also be a possible issue. We will see. Biology doesn't lie.
Whirl.
Logically, puberty blockers would interfere in this process. Since people develop at different rates, a "confused" child may have ended up with a brain matching their body, even if they did not feel this way at 10.
Originally posted by BlakemoreThe genes are expressed
I'm failing to see the distinction.
Originally posted by BlakemoreAnd there’s more! While brief and coordinated SRY-activation initiates the process of male-sex differentiation, genes like DMRT1 and FOXL2 maintain certain sexual characteristics during adulthood. If these genes stop functioning, gonads can change and exhibit characteristics of the opposite sex. Without these players constantly active, certain components of your biological sex can change.
I'm failing to see the distinction.
There’s still more! SRY, DMRT1, and FOXL2 aren’t directly involved with other aspects of biological sex. Secondary sex characteristics—penis, vagina, appearance, behavior—arise later, from hormones, environment, experience, and genes interacting. To explore this, we move from the body to the brain, where biology becomes behavior.
So yeah that's a second situation... and not the hormonal one.
Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!So what would be the solution?
The genes are expressed And there’s more! While brief and coordinated SRY-activation initiates the process of male-sex differentiation, genes like DMRT1 and FOXL2 maintain certain sexual characteristics during adulthood. If these genes stop functioning, gonads can change and exhibit characteristics of the opposite sex. Without these players constantly active, certain components of your biological sex can change.There’s still more! SRY, DMRT1, and FOXL2 aren’t directly involved with other aspects of biological sex. Secondary sex characteristics—penis, vagina, appearance, behavior—arise later, from hormones, environment, experience, and genes interacting. To explore this, we move from the body to the brain, where biology becomes behavior.
So yeah that's a second situation... and not the hormonal one.
Originally posted by Blakemoremaybe, but variation is going to be plentiful in female and female like brains. Think of it as a scale rather than a binary situation. We've all met feminine men and masculine women. This shows this may simply be biology.
Supposedly, women have better eyesight than men on average and colour blindness is more common in males. Is this part of having a feminine brain?
Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
The genes are expressed And there’s more! While brief and coordinated SRY-activation initiates the process of male-sex differentiation, genes like DMRT1 and FOXL2 maintain certain sexual characteristics during adulthood. If these genes stop functioning, gonads can change and exhibit characteristics of the opposite sex. Without these players constantly active, certain components of your biological sex can change.There’s still more! SRY, DMRT1, and FOXL2 aren’t directly involved with other aspects of biological sex. Secondary sex characteristics—penis, vagina, appearance, behavior—arise later, from hormones, environment, experience, and genes interacting. To explore this, we move from the body to the brain, where biology becomes behavior.
So yeah that's a second situation... and not the hormonal one.
Immediately looked into environmental factors disrupting this process:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6501744/
So, it begs the question: If it is true businesses are releasing toxins into the environment that affect gender orientation, why isn't this being addressed?
Is the lgbtq movement of blanket acceptance of such changes being used by big agra as a cover against costly reforms?