There is no such thing as privilege.

Originally posted by Scribble
You can work to obtain privilege/s too, though? Especially when talking of class privilege, which is the most impactful and meaningful form of privilege.

Sort of - for example, if I work to become super rich - that's an earned advantage over lots of other folks. But if I were to have kids, they'd be born into that privilege. It's a privilege and an advantage.

Same thing as a kid born into an absolute slum - he's at a huge disadvantage.

Artol, Scribble, and Style Time captured anything I'd say on the topic. I have nothing of value to add that hasn't already been stated.

🙂

Originally posted by wxyz
Everybody has their own story and you know nothing about their life and failures and successes.

Calling people privileged is just a way to put down other people while taking NO responsibility for your own life.

Originally posted by Quincy
Sort of - for example, if I work to become super rich - that's an earned advantage over lots of other folks. But if I were to have kids, they'd be born into that privilege. It's a privilege and an advantage.

Same thing as a kid born into an absolute slum - he's at a huge disadvantage.

I don't feel 'privileged' to be white, because that implies that I should feel good about being white and not black, which is a bad way of looking at it, and also not very reflective of life as it doesn't take anything into consideration other than skin colour. To feel 'privileged' to be white is to say that you're happy you're not black. It's understandable to be gracious and humble about being born into a stable economic situation and the like, but when that gets brought into race... I get where the idea of 'white privilege' comes from in an American context, but I think the terminology really comes across as racist in all kinds of ways.

It's possible to look at intersectional matters without bringing 'racial privilege' into the equation.

I get where you're finding a disconnect, or feel weird about privilege's use in the context of race. But the definition of privilege is maintained regardless of what the context it's being used in - it has no alignment.

I feel there is a considerable leap between admitting the existence of white privilege and being grateful you aren't black. In fact, I think someone thinking "I am privileged to be a white guy because black people get some seriously racist shit treatment in wherever wherever" is an acknowledgement of white privilege itself.

Again, there is no such thing as "white privilege" so nah, not going to "admit" something that doesn't actually exist. 👆

If a certain race has privilege then it is black people. For example, they can say the 'N' word without fear of backlash. They have affirmative action to make it unfairly easier for them to get in college and certain jobs. White people don't get the advantages of affirmative action.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Again, there is no such thing as "white privilege" so nah, not going to "admit" something that doesn't actually exist. 👆

If a certain race has privilege then it is black people. For example, they can say the 'N' word without fear of backlash. They have affirmative action to make it unfairly easier for them to get in college and certain jobs. White people don't get the advantages of affirmative action.

So your contribution to the school of thought is that White Privilege is fake but Black Privilege is a thing and you are shakey-fist concerned about it.

Black people can also call white people "crackers" and they suffer no serious consequences because of it. They can basically insult a white person all they want and nothing happens to them for it. If a white person insults a black person though then it's "oh shit look out, Satan has risen!" LoL.

Black people get away all the time with playing the knockout game and usually always the victims of that sick game are white people. If there was even a single incident of a white person doing that it'd be all over the news for weeks and stuck up celebrities would never stop talking about how America is soooooo racist and filled with white supremacists. It is frequently done by black people though and there is not a word about it mentioned in MSM.

Black people can go around screaming "black lives matter!" with no consequences but if a white person went around screaming "white lives matter!" he'd be branded a white supremacist and probably lose his job for it as well.

When a white person is wrongly killed by the cops there isn't a peep about it on MSM. A black guy is killed by cops and it's treated like it's the end of the world though.

I could go on... and on... and on...and on... and on... about all the privileges black people have that white people don't but I think my point has been made sufficiently.

No such this as "white privilege".

You've made a point but not the one you think.

You come off as if you are completely unable to decipher the differences behind the two statements in question: "Black Lives Matter" and "White Lives Matter" but kind of willfully? Like refusal to understand it.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
if gender is just a "construct", then privilege is too. 🙂

That is reductive and misses the point. Things like gender and race may be social constructs, but they are ones in which society is heavily-invested. Even if there is no biological basis for the construct of race, i.e. racial categories are not in any sense "real," the systems built with the construct of race as a foundational premise are still real, and continue to be real even after that understanding.

Originally posted by Quincy
You've made a point but not the one you think.

You come off as if you are completely unable to decipher the differences behind the two statements in question: "Black Lives Matter" and "White Lives Matter" but kind of willfully? Like refusal to understand it.

👆

White Privilege is certainly a thing in America. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging it and you're not automatically a racist if you're a White person and have experienced/benefited from this in your life.

Originally posted by Quincy
I get where you're finding a disconnect, or feel weird about privilege's use in the context of race. But the definition of privilege is maintained regardless of what the context it's being used in - it has no alignment.

I feel there is a considerable leap between admitting the existence of white privilege and being grateful you aren't black. In fact, I think someone thinking "I am privileged to be a white guy because black people get some seriously racist shit treatment in wherever wherever" is an acknowledgement of white privilege itself.

I don't disagree with the sentiment, but the way that 'privilege' is used atm is something I think is overall harmful to race relations in the long-term. I support correct and viable measures to combat racism and improve the living standards of black people — in the U.S., the drug war is one of the greatest influencing factors in black poverty, and the way that young black men are targeted and jailed just for marijuana possession is abominable; it also gives potential racist cops an excuse to hassle young black men, so ending that and legalising marijuana on a federal level should be a priority.

From what I've seen, this obsession with Marxist power dynamics isn't going to lead anywhere productive or healthy. For example, trying to shoulder the blame of the entirety of American slavery onto all white people regardless of their class is going to do nothing but alienate a whole lot of people (for good reason), and telling a poor white person that they should feel lucky they're not black is just... absurd and horrible. Demeaning to both white people and black people of all classes.

Until class is the centre of the privilege debate, I want nothing to do with it: 'racial privilege' as a concept is racist, imo.

Originally posted by Robtard
White Privilege is certainly a thing in America. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging it and you're not automatically a racist if you're a White person and have experienced/benefited from this in your life.

I think we are sort of crossing streams and not quite discussing the same thing. I’m talking about the belief that what is considered “White Privilege” is a real thing, while you are stating your belief that you are uncomfortable with it as a concept being right or wrong inherently.

But I’m not in any circles or hearing about how white privilege would be used to punch down at poor white communities as “you’re lucky though!” That’s like, awful. If I say I recognize white privilege - would you say I’m racist?

Originally posted by Quincy
I think we are sort of crossing streams and not quite discussing the same thing. I’m talking about the belief that what is considered “White Privilege” is a real thing, while you are stating your belief that you are uncomfortable with it as a concept being right or wrong inherently.

But I’m not in any circles or hearing about how white privilege would be used to punch down at poor white communities as “you’re lucky though!” That’s like, awful. If I say I recognize white privilege - would you say I’m racist?

However, I think a lot of people on the left, and a lot of people I know, would probably assume I'm racist if I said that 'white privilege doesn't exist', and that to me is more than enough to show me that this ideological well is toxic.

I think the way we approach matters is often more important than the end goal. If we cannot achieve peace and harmony in a constructive and peaceful way, then we never will. I refuse to accept the current narrative of 'white privilege' even though I think its goals are noble (and that it is pertinent), because it is too entrenched in toxic ideology, and because it asks me to act in a way that I consider racist in an apparent effort to stop racism.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
it's a thing in almost every Country.

I don't know, other Brits I talk with insist the vitriol is strictly a US thing.

One English gent even said there's no friction with the Irish, despite the Irish Potato Famine and resulting mass deaths.

Originally posted by Mindship
IMO, it's reverse racism. It should be 'majority privilege', because if I was in, say, China or Ethiopia, my paleness would grant me no special status.

Like 'toxic masculinity'. Sexist, given that females can be just as toxic.

This is what the far left had best take care with, ie, substituting one double-standard for another. Revenge is not progress; it just keeps the cycle of hate and anger going.

Originally posted by cdtm
Here's the thing about "white privilege". It only really exists if you're rich and white.

The idea of inherent advantages for middle class/lower middle class/poor whites may exist in some form or other, but I would argue are balance out by a lack of access to social services that are earmarked by race.

For example, you have an ailing grandfather who served in World War 2, is registered with the Veterans Hospital, and loses all of his independence due to a fall. His son is forced to care for him, and suffers a heart attack. The state is turned to for an aid, and is told in no uncertain terms "Look, CT isn't paying for a helper. You never heard this from me, but if your father was black, we wouldn't even be having this conversation."

So a multiple heart attack victim ended up being his sole provider, and it was almost a blessing in disguise when another fall happened and the hospitals were forced to take him (And I hate to say this, but it's true)

I'm currently seeing the exact same thing play out with another family that is white. They just called, asking for help with an old friend of my grandfathers, and tips on trying to argue his case to get help as they rejected him outright.

If you aren't rich, are white, and need help, you are [b]on your own in America.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Rich black people have the same advantages as rich white people though. If anything, there is 'wealth privilege' irrespective of "race."

It's why I avoid bringing them up sometimes. People will acknowledge all manner of personal privilege right up until we get to the hot buttons: gender, race, and maybe religion. Then suddenly, normally sensible people scream "WOAH MAN! WHITE PRIVELEGE? STFU. I WORK HARD!"

No one is accusing you of being evil human beings. We're talking about systems and structures.

Originally posted by Mindship
Like 'toxic masculinity'. Sexist, given that females can be just as toxic.

It just got coined as a term at a different time than "toxic femininity" so they wound up with different names. Most critical theory would place "toxic femininity" under "benevolent sexism", which got its name earlier. There are spaces which enable negative female behavior from women who would take advantage of it. Female led **** shaming, for example.

The problem is, I generally only see this raised in response to toxic masculinity. It feels like an effort to silence criticism of problematic masculinity, rather than a genuine concern over problematic femininity. "Toxic masculinity? GTFO. Women are demons!"

Originally posted by Scribble
Honestly, I see far fewer people speaking rationally as you are these days than those social media warriors you mention. Those loud, fervent voices are drowning out most nuance and have turned intersectionality into a church and a weapon. And tbh, I don't think they are well-meaning. I tried to think that, but after the past few years, all benefit of the doubt and good will I had has been wiped away.

As long as intersectionality is used properly — i.e. as a tool, not a doctrine — it's perfectly useful. But by and large, it isn't. It's used to wipe away individualism and box everyone in. Until I see it being used responsibly, I'm not willing to give it an inch, other than in rational conversations like this, where I know you are seeing it from a more complex and nuanced point of view.

Originally posted by Scribble
I wouldn't say that because I can try to make an effort to discern the difference between the individual and their ideology.

However, I think a lot of people on the left, and a lot of people I know, would probably assume I'm racist if I said that 'white privilege doesn't exist', and that to me is more than enough to show me that this ideological well is toxic.

I think the way we approach matters is often more important than the end goal. If we cannot achieve peace and harmony in a constructive and peaceful way, then we never will. I refuse to accept the current narrative of 'white privilege' even though I think its goals are noble (and that it is pertinent), because it is too entrenched in toxic ideology, and because it asks me to act in a way that I consider racist in an apparent effort to stop racism.

I think if your desire is to communicate that you think the term "privilege" is problematic, because you see it as elevating yourself over black people and you say the term "white privilege doesn't exist" to that end, you are failing to communicate your meaning to them. That's not what most people will understand when you say that, what they will believe you said is "white people have no advantages over black people and black people do not face racist obstacles that I do not face".

I have many issues with Jordan Peterson, but one of his better advice is to be precise with your language, and I think if you come at it from an explicatory angle, rather than what I think most people would consider a slogan, you might be more successful in communicating your feelings to your friends.

I always think it's best to take people at the headspace they are in and try to communicate with them on that level, even if you have very different preferences in terminology.

Originally posted by Quincy
I get where you're finding a disconnect, or feel weird about privilege's use in the context of race. But the definition of privilege is maintained regardless of what the context it's being used in - it has no alignment.

I feel there is a considerable leap between admitting the existence of white privilege and being grateful you aren't black. In fact, I think someone thinking "I am privileged to be a white guy because black people get some seriously racist shit treatment in wherever wherever" is an acknowledgement of white privilege itself.

Exactly. Acknowledging your privilege is different from implying the other group is inferior.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
if gender is just a "construct", then privilege is too. 🙂

Originally posted by Robtard
White Privilege is certainly a thing in America. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging it and you're not automatically a racist if you're a White person and have experienced/benefited from this in your life.

Originally posted by Scribble
But thinking "I am privileged to be a white guy because black people get some seriously racist shit treatment in wherever wherever" is thinking "I'm sure glad I'm not black", so like, I just can't do it.

I don't disagree with the sentiment, but the way that 'privilege' is used atm is something I think is overall harmful to race relations in the long-term. I support correct and viable measures to combat racism and improve the living standards of black people — in the U.S., the drug war is one of the greatest influencing factors in black poverty, and the way that young black men are targeted and jailed just for marijuana possession is abominable; it also gives potential racist cops an excuse to hassle young black men, so ending that and legalising marijuana on a federal level should be a priority.

From what I've seen, this obsession with Marxist power dynamics isn't going to lead anywhere productive or healthy. For example, trying to shoulder the blame of the entirety of American slavery onto all white people regardless of their class is going to do nothing but alienate a whole lot of people (for good reason), and telling a poor white person that they should feel lucky they're not black is just... absurd and horrible. Demeaning to both white people and black people of all classes.

Until class is the centre of the privilege debate, I want nothing to do with it: 'racial privilege' as a concept is racist, imo.

"I'm sure glad I'm not black because I get to avoid many of the problems they face in our society, although I hope we as a society stop marginalizing non-white people"

"I'm sure glad I'm not black because black people are inferior."

One is racist. One is an acknowledgement of privilege. As long as you're not doing the second one, I don't see the problem.

I would say Marxist theory does emphasize the primacy of economic class though, and that extends to Marxist Feminism or Marxist views in Race theory. It's just that class is further complicated by race and such.