Yeah, I mean generally an overhaul from punitive to rehabilitative justice would be what does it. As for punishment, you having to pay back the money you stole (plus possibly damages) as well as being potentially incarcerated for a while or forced to do community service should meet the threshold where increase in sentencing has marginal impact on disincentivization.
Originally posted by Artol
Yeah, I mean generally an overhaul from punitive to rehabilitative justice would be what does it. As for punishment, you having to pay back the money you stole (plus possibly damages) as well as being potentially incarcerated for a while or forced to do community service should meet the threshold where increase in sentencing has marginal impact on disincentivization.
How is vastly lowering the punishment for crimes rehabilitative justice?
Originally posted by Silent Master
How is vastly lowering the punishment for crimes rehabilitative justice?
I like all of Artol's suggestions and they actual work - by the science.
But what they should do with the incarceration is keep them in prison until spring 2021. Minimum. Why? Because this is all political. Depriving them of their freedom and ability to participate in the destructive rioting, voting, AND post election rioting and violence, will completely undercut the purpose of their destructive political movement. It's the worst possible outcome for them.
While rehabilitating them. They will need to go to psychotherapy where they are told over and over "You can't always get what you want. Other people think differently from you and you should not force your will on others - it is evil."
Originally posted by Artol👆 Agreed
Yeah, I mean generally an overhaul from punitive to rehabilitative justice would be what does it. As for punishment, you having to pay back the money you stole (plus possibly damages) as well as being potentially incarcerated for a while or forced to do community service should meet the threshold where increase in sentencing has marginal impact on disincentivization.
Originally posted by Artol
Felony charges seem too much for my sensibilities. But I guess it is in character for the United States where there's been an unseemly inflation in length of sentences.
Nah, it's not too much. It should be a felony. Thugs who deface and/or tear down statues should spend at least a decade in prison, imo.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I like all of Artol's suggestions and they actual work - by the science.But what they should do with the incarceration is keep them in prison until spring 2021. Minimum. Why? Because this is all political. Depriving them of their freedom and ability to participate in the destructive rioting, voting, AND post election rioting and violence, will completely undercut the purpose of their destructive political movement. It's the worst possible outcome for them.
While rehabilitating them. They will need to go to psychotherapy where they are told over and over "You can't always get what you want. Other people think differently from you and you should not force your will on others - it is evil."
I think you proposing to disenfranchise those who disagree with the ruling class is a bad idea. Why? The government can only rule with the consent of the governed. As you said, it's all political-- stripping voting rights away from the opposition sounds great until they outnumber you and break out the guillotines.
I don't think we are there YET in America, but we definitely aren't getting further away from it, and excluding the opposition from partaking in the process will only alienate them further, fixing nothing. They would come out of prison in the spring of 2021 with nothing to lose, and a host of newly sympathetic allies.
Originally posted by truejedi
I think you proposing to disenfranchise those who disagree with the ruling class is a bad idea. Why?
This is a strawman of my position and you know it. 🙂
We are talking about people who have committed felony vandalism. Actual crimes. And you're getting upset that I want to reduce their prison sentences?
Are you not aware of the penalties for felony vandalism?
https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/Vandalism.htm
Many acts of vandalism are misdemeanors, meaning the maximum penalties include fines and up to a year in the local jail. However, vandalism that results in serious damage to valuable property is a felony. Defendants charged with a felony can face more than a year in state prison and significant fines.Most states categorize damage to property worth less than $500 as a misdemeanor, while anything worth $500 or more is a felony. This amount can differ among states or depending on the type of property. For example, some states set a $250 limit to misdemeanors, but consider any damage to a motor vehicle a felony.
Originally posted by truejedi
The government can only rule with the consent of the governed.
And if the people vote to keep those statues but the minority destroys the statues anyway, they are operating against the will of the people and violate the consent of the governed.
You either support mob rule - the mob that is the most violent makes the rules - or you believe in civil society that uses laws, regulations, and democracy to decide actions.
FYI, tyranny of the minority is called minoritarianism. We are actually in that age already where the tyranny of the minority is making the decisions and rules because the majority has no spine to fight against the injustices.
Originally posted by truejedi
As you said, it's all political-- stripping voting rights away from the opposition sounds great until they outnumber you and break out the guillotines.
You're under the mistaken position that I am suggesting we add new laws that strip away the right to vote for 9 months.
You're wrong. I am suggesting that they can return to society after they serve their prison terms and after they complete a rehabilitation program. In addition to restitution. Their voting rights are restored.
The sting from my suggestion is they will JUST miss all the important things coming up that is very dear and precious to them. Instead of sending them to prison for years (I am against that), jail them for just a wee bit of time and make them go through rehabilitation to enter society as functioning members. If you throw the book at them and send them away a long time, it costs the taxpayers money and doesn't sting as much if you let them out right after the good stuff happens.
Originally posted by dadudemon
This is a strawman of my position and you know it. 🙂We are talking about people who have committed felony vandalism. Actual crimes. And you're getting upset that I want to reduce their prison sentences?
Are you not aware of the penalties for felony vandalism?
https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/Vandalism.htm
And if the people vote to keep those statues but the minority destroys the statues anyway, they are operating against the will of the people and violate the consent of the governed.
You either support mob rule - the mob that is the most violent makes the rules - or you believe in civil society that uses laws, regulations, and democracy to decide actions.
FYI, tyranny of the minority is called minoritarianism. We are actually in that age already where the tyranny of the minority is making the decisions and rules because the majority has no spine to fight against the injustices.
You're under the mistaken position that I am suggesting we add new laws that strip away the right to vote for 9 months.
You're wrong. I am suggesting that they can return to society after they serve their prison terms and after they complete a rehabilitation program. In addition to restitution. Their voting rights are restored.
The sting from my suggestion is they will JUST miss all the important things coming up that is very dear and precious to them. Instead of sending them to prison for years (I am against that), jail them for just a wee bit of time and make them go through rehabilitation to enter society as functioning members. If you throw the book at them and send them away a long time, it costs the taxpayers money and doesn't sting as much if you let them out right after the good stuff happens.
I like this post. I dont agree with everything about it, but it has a lot of good points. I'll try to give a better response later.
Originally posted by Robtard
Has more strict sentencing done anything to lower crimes?Then there's also the cost of having someone for a non-violent crime sitting in prison for 10+ years.
Never said I support 10+ years. I say for the first offense, 3 years probation and a fine of 3x the repair cost +$5,000.