Originally posted by dadudemon
I like all of Artol's suggestions and they actual work - by the science.But what they should do with the incarceration is keep them in prison until spring 2021. Minimum. Why? Because this is all political. Depriving them of their freedom and ability to participate in the destructive rioting, voting, AND post election rioting and violence, will completely undercut the purpose of their destructive political movement. It's the worst possible outcome for them.
While rehabilitating them. They will need to go to psychotherapy where they are told over and over "You can't always get what you want. Other people think differently from you and you should not force your will on others - it is evil."
I can see how that is a punishment that might seem fitting for the crime, while having a certain amusing irony to it. But I am generally opposed to the disenfranchisement of any group, I think even murderers should have the rights to vote in elections, and there should be polling stations in prisons to ensure that.
Originally posted by Artol👆 My thoughts exactly.
I can see how that is a punishment that might seem fitting for the crime, while having a certain amusing irony to it. But I am generally opposed to the disenfranchisement of any group, I think even murderers should have the rights to vote in elections, and there should be polling stations in prisons to ensure that.
Originally posted by Artol
I can see how that is a punishment that might seem fitting for the crime, while having a certain amusing irony to it. But I am generally opposed to the disenfranchisement of any group, I think even murderers should have the rights to vote in elections, and there should be polling stations in prisons to ensure that.
Check out my following on my same post:
Originally posted by dadudemon
This is a strawman of my position and you know it. 🙂We are talking about people who have committed felony vandalism. Actual crimes. And you're getting upset that I want to reduce their prison sentences?
Are you not aware of the penalties for felony vandalism?
https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/Vandalism.htm
And if the people vote to keep those statues but the minority destroys the statues anyway, they are operating against the will of the people and violate the consent of the governed.
You either support mob rule - the mob that is the most violent makes the rules - or you believe in civil society that uses laws, regulations, and democracy to decide actions.
FYI, tyranny of the minority is called minoritarianism. We are actually in that age already where the tyranny of the minority is making the decisions and rules because the majority has no spine to fight against the injustices.
You're under the mistaken position that I am suggesting we add new laws that strip away the right to vote for 9 months.
You're wrong. I am suggesting that they can return to society after they serve their prison terms and after they complete a rehabilitation program. In addition to restitution. Their voting rights are restored.
The sting from my suggestion is they will JUST miss all the important things coming up that is very dear and precious to them. Instead of sending them to prison for years (I am against that), jail them for just a wee bit of time and make them go through rehabilitation to enter society as functioning members. If you throw the book at them and send them away a long time, it costs the taxpayers money and doesn't sting as much if you let them out right after the good stuff happens.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Check out my following on my same post:
Yeah, I read it. My suggestion in regards to disenfranchisement goes beyond the status quo, I think voting rights should a) never be taken away for any crime and b) restored to all those currently serving sentences. When it comes to your suggestion of shortening prison sentences and focusing more on rehabilitation and reintegration into society I am completely in agreement.
Originally posted by Artol
Yeah, I read it. My suggestion in regards to disenfranchisement goes beyond the status quo, I think voting rights should a) never be taken away for any crime and b) restored to all those currently serving sentences. When it comes to your suggestion of shortening prison sentences and focusing more on rehabilitation and reintegration into society I am completely in agreement.
Oh, then that would explain why you didn't agree completely. It was because you never want voting rights to be removed even if you are incarcerated for crimes, is that correct?
Originally posted by dadudemonI think that is crime and sentence dependent, losing your rights as a citizen for spray painting BLM on a statue seems extreme, losing them for shooting someone stealing your Swatika doesn't.
Oh, then that would explain why you didn't agree completely. It was because you never want voting rights to be removed even if you are incarcerated for crimes, is that correct?
🙂
It was only a matter of time.
This is definitely gonna be a violent weekend here in Chicago.
DDM and Artol: An alternative perspective.
I've had my car stolem. It was part of an epidemic of kids hitting different towns for cars with the doors unlocked or keys left in them, and taking them out for joyrides. My car was one of those taken. It was found a week later in the neighboring city. Drugs all over the place, smell of weed took months to clear out.
The officer who returned it explains that even if they found the kids, they'd simply have to let them go, because they're minors. And the kids KNOW this. Which is WHY they do it.
Give a slap on the wrist, and there is no incentive NOT to commit a crime over and over again.
Originally posted by cdtm
DDM and Artol: An alternative perspective.I've had my car stolem. It was part of an epidemic of kids hitting different towns for cars with the doors unlocked or keys left in them, and taking them out for joyrides. My car was one of those taken. It was found a week later in the neighboring city. Drugs all over the place, smell of weed took months to clear out.
The officer who returned it explains that even if they found the kids, they'd simply have to let them go, because they're minors. And the kids KNOW this. Which is WHY they do it.
Give a slap on the wrist, and there is no incentive NOT to commit a crime over and over again.
Originally posted by cdtm
DDM and Artol: An alternative perspective.I've had my car stolem. It was part of an epidemic of kids hitting different towns for cars with the doors unlocked or keys left in them, and taking them out for joyrides. My car was one of those taken. It was found a week later in the neighboring city. Drugs all over the place, smell of weed took months to clear out.
The officer who returned it explains that even if they found the kids, they'd simply have to let them go, because they're minors. And the kids KNOW this. Which is WHY they do it.
Give a slap on the wrist, and there is no incentive NOT to commit a crime over and over again.
I'm advocating for restitution and rehabilitation as well as incarceration (but not "years" like most states are with felony vandalism).
Also, in the example you gave, that's still grand theft auto and a felony. If they didn't have licenses, operating a motor vehicle without a license. Reckless endangerment/reckless driving (and "wreckless driving" if they didn't crash awesome weeeeeee!), grand theft auto, among other charges.
Destroying statues that cost multiples of thousands of dollars is definitely felony vandalism. They shouldn't be released from jail and they should definitely serve time until they are rehabilitated.
Originally posted by cdtm
DDM and Artol: An alternative perspective.I've had my car stolem. It was part of an epidemic of kids hitting different towns for cars with the doors unlocked or keys left in them, and taking them out for joyrides. My car was one of those taken. It was found a week later in the neighboring city. Drugs all over the place, smell of weed took months to clear out.
The officer who returned it explains that even if they found the kids, they'd simply have to let them go, because they're minors. And the kids KNOW this. Which is WHY they do it.
Give a slap on the wrist, and there is no incentive NOT to commit a crime over and over again.
Pretty much the same thing happened to me back in 2004. They got let go. And they had f*cked up the steering wheel on the car.
Originally posted by Surtur
Pretty much the same thing happened to me back in 2004. They got let go. And they had f*cked up the steering wheel on the car.
That's super shitty.
I was crashed into by truck of 2 illegal Latino's who were drunk on tequila (they admitted it to me). The dude driving and was left by his friend who jumped in the truck and sped off when the police were about to arrive.
The one driving that was left behind pretended to not know English. It was pissing off the police officer. He actually knew Spanish the entire time. Let him play the ignorance game. And then told him in Spanish that if he didn't start telling the truth, he's going straight to jail. That sobered him up quickly. Now he knew English, instantly. It was a miracle!
The police told me to be on my way. They scoured the neighborhood to find the truck because one of the police thinks he recognized the white truck before it sped off. I never heard anything about it.
I was stuck with thousands in car repairs and I was only 20 at the time. Thinking back, that's a lot of money I could have used for more important things. I had car insurance that covered damage to other vehicles but not the full coverage (because it cost 3x the amount and was $190 a month vs. $64 a month for just liability).
Anyway, the police really haven't done much for me.