Strength increasing ability.

Started by AlbertoJohnAvil17 pages

Originally posted by Juntai
Says the comics.

Him having a perceived psychological flaw where he limits himself until he needs power doesn't change the way his character biological process operates.

This story is essentially no different than when he was powerless for 52/One Year Later, and thought his powers were gone, but the moment he wanted or needed them, suddenly they were there.

Yes, he was not at his full potential until he was fighting for PEOPLE. That was the whole goal of the comic. All the trails in that comic you can say was him subconsciously holding back. But only when he is fighting for PEOPLE is he not holding back.

I thought Alberto argued that Digit First comics are not canon 😂

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
@PR, Superman doesn't have dynamic strength, RECENT comic issues PROVES this:

1. Superman wanted to know if he earned THAT POWER,Wioska was trying to make argument that superman was equating a lack of power due to his benevolence:

2. He made an argument that Superman is trying not to access his full power due to his fear of being the people he hates:

3: His hypothesis is that superman is hindered by his desire to be a shield:

4. Wioska was trying to get superman to be ruthless ....but UNDERSTOOD something superman was not getting:

5. Superman was not getting that he was at his full potential BECAUSE of caring and loving:

6. It was not apparent until Wioska started to aim at innocent ppl. THE bonds of yuga Kuhn became free...BECAUSE he was a shield. He was at full power

7. Which means that HE THOUGHT that he was weaker than he was...and was holding back.

And that he thought he needed to be like the ones he hated to not hold back and that's why he wanted to know how without being the ones he hated:

Which shows at the end that he was not hold back. IT was just his kind heart that made him and others think he was holding back
Verbatim " your heart is kind, so your power is virtuous "

SHOWING that he is not hold holding back, his powers are just part of his virtuous meaning that his good nature ISN'T what's holding back. And that the only way he got at his full potential of not holding back is his through his good heart. So he was not holding back when he is fighting for good. So he needs to stop worrying. period.

It's always been a myth that he had "DYNAmic stReNGTH" Superman isn't Hulk.


That's like missing the entire point of the comic.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
It was a retcon, and is far more recent, period. He doesn't have dynamic strength, I proved this,

No, you didn't. And your argument is shaky at best.

Shouting that something is "proven" or a fact over and over doesn't make it so.

Originally posted by -Pr-
No, you didn't. And your argument is shaky at best.

Shouting that something is "proven" or a fact over and over doesn't make it so.

that doesn't mean everytime he gets beat or he fights his hardest, or punches his hardest is still on a limiter. We can only go off the narration. And if the narrator doesn't point it out...then it didn't happen. And UNDER that writer he gave his all.

Same argument goes for Darkseid and his avatars. You cant keep slapping avatar every time he gets defeated. Unless the narrator says so. period.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
that doesn't mean everytime he gets beat or he fights his hardest, or punches his hardest is still on a limiter. We can only go off the narration. And if the narrator doesn't point it out...then it didn't happen. And UNDER that writer he gave his all.

Let's say I agree with you. Let's say I 100% agree with you and believe you're right.

The problem is, that's not how we treat retcons. That's not even how comic companies in general treat retcons. If it was, the X-Men, for example, would be constantly retconned because writers are always getting their powers wrong.

Unless your solution is to just treat everything as retcons... which would be a headache and a half.

Especially since that issue of Man of Tomorrow can't really be believed to be retconning Our Worlds At War, one of the largest Superman arcs of the last 30 years.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Let's say I agree with you. Let's say I 100% agree with you and believe you're right.

The problem is, that's not how we treat retcons. That's not even how comic companies in general treat retcons. If it was, the X-Men, for example, would be constantly retconned because writers are always getting their powers wrong.

Unless your solution is to just treat everything as retcons... which would be a headache and a half.

Especially since that issue of Man of Tomorrow can't really be believed to be retconning Our Worlds At War, one of the largest Superman arcs of the last 30 years.

I don't believe everything is retconned. I believe that a narrator will give us guidance. If they are not there, ITS a strong indicator that what we see.
is what we see.
If we see superman going all out, Then he's going all out. If it says superman is holding back, then he's holding back. If it says he didn't hold back or a character says he didn' t hold back with no objection then he was not holding back. If we seen a stronger punch( not some feat that people l try to intertwine with his striking power) than there is a chance he held back. Unless there is reason to consider the retcon or the inconsistency. Both feats at that time need to be evaluated more.( was he weaker, tired, something was different, incorrect context)

Originally posted by Juntai
Yep, he does hold back like that constantly. That doesn't change anything. On top of that, he also gets stronger with stress/anger/when the situation requires. Both of these attributes have been explained many times.

On this, I don't know which version, but there was this comic where Superman planned with Batman to.make it look.like Darkseid killed Supergirl to enable himself to.beat Darkseid. Confusing it was

Originally posted by -Pr-
2 pages of you lot shiting on about Superman and Wonder Woman's speed... in a thread that has nothing to do with speed.

I just woke up and I have a splitting headache, so believe you me, it stops now.

And a note to those that think they're being sneaky. You're really, really not as stealthy or as subtle as you think you are.


A hangover? 😛

Originally posted by abhilegend
😂

Yeah, Naruto forum is bonkers. You'd think Superman was galaxy level by their calculations.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160216052913/http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=26429

Have fun.


Oh yeah NF is full of BS. The hilarious part is their hypocrisy, where they put themselves above VsBattles and SpaceBattles forums but is just as bad.
And the members there incredibly arrogant and hostile with their own head canon

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
It was a retcon, and is far more recent, period. He doesn't have dynamic strength, I proved this,

Let's say you're right, which given you're you I wouldn't hold my breath, but even if you're right, you claimed it was always a myth. There's multiple comics proving you wrong. So you're backtracking now and saying retcon to cover your ass for when you're proven wrong yet again?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I don't believe everything is retconned. I believe that a narrator will give us guidance. If they are not there, ITS a strong indicator that what we see.
is what we see.
If we see superman going all out, Then he's going all out. If it says superman is holding back, then he's holding back. If it says he didn't hold back or a character says he didn' t hold back with no objection then he was not holding back. If we seen a stronger punch( not some feat that people l try to intertwine with his striking power) than there is a chance he held back. Unless there is reason to consider the retcon or the inconsistency. Both feats at that time need to be evaluated more.( was he weaker, tired, something was different, incorrect context)

Ah, you're JBL's son's Smurf.

Except the point of a Smurf account is to go against people lower than you and win, not get wrecked like an afemininte hippie who dropped the soap his first time in a prison shower.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
On this, I don't know which version, but there was this comic where Superman planned with Batman to.make it look.like Darkseid killed Supergirl to enable himself to.beat Darkseid. Confusing it was

It was actually to trick Darkseid so he wouldn't come after her again, but it was really weird. Even when it was safe he still talked about her as if she was dead.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I can already tell we're not going to meet in the middle on this, but I'm gonna try anyway:

As far as the Shattered God feat, not many. It is a hell of a feat. The problem for me, is that as good as it is, what's her next best one? It's not her average. It's not even her operating at that "bit above normal" that most heroes do. It's an insane feat.

But you asked for a Superman feat that rivals it. I would say the diner feat with Barry is one. The rebuilding of the city/moon is two more. If those don't fit the bill, I would submit the one where he basically processes everything so fast that it's one of the best speed feats ever written.

Your point about him having more issues than her... if it was someone like, say... Kalibak? He's only got a couple of hundred issues iirc, then you'd have an argument. But Wonder Woman has thousands. And, that's not even considering the fact that the more comics a person has, the more they're going to have not just high feats, but low feats too. It evens out in the end imo.

As for the argument about his reflexes being portrayed as being consistently better? Well, they are. Even leaving out the direct comparisons, Superman doesn't just have more feats of reflex/processing speed than she does. He has better ones too.

And it still goes back to that point about outside of the Shattered God feat, what's next? She has some excellent speed feats. Ones that make her piss all over most non-Flash speedsters. But Superman has, ever since the late 90s, been shown more and more as having a broader range of feats than she does.

Honestly, my preference would be that they're about even reflex-wise. As good as he is, Superman still has that gap between thought and action. For her, there should be little to no gap at all because of her superior training and experience in combat.


That's cool, I can totally understand what you're saying about all that. I got sidetracked for a minute getting into how I see it as being compatible, but I'm not actually trying to push WW as being faster than Supes here. My point was simply that we do as a matter of general course substitute our own versions of the characters for those the comics presents to some degree or another. Hell the comic versions are ALWAYS bound by the plot of the story so "No PIS" guarantees there's going to be some differences even before we start bringing up inconsistent writing. I disagree with Carver about Supes total lack of dynamic strength, I'm just saying that while Supes has repeatedly demonstrated what I consider to be dynamic strength, he hasn't consistently demonstrated it issue to issue the way that Hulk has so I can understand why some people might disagree.

Originally posted by abhilegend
[B]Translation : I can't accept it if Superman is faster than her because that's my whole agenda to lowball Superman.

No it had nothing to do with Superman himself, but rather my opinion of Diana's speed before those statements. It wasn't that I'd lose my mind if Supes pulled off the feat himself, it was that I didn't consider anything that impressive as being remotely valid UNLESS they were right up there in DC's top echelon of speed. And she didn't have to be faster than Supes to be in that echelon, simply outright acknowledging that she was as fast would have been enough(and I prob would have settled for ALMOST as fast as Supes if it were driven home repeatedly).

@Alberto's copy paste posts.

😂 So Since Superman knowingly and subconsciously holds back he doesn't have dynamic strenght?

Just because he's holding back doesn't mean he can't have dynamic strength. Why not have both? You wouldn't hesitate to make this cla about the hulk would you?

How about the time he destroyed the planet by just jumping off? He had no energy left and was able to jump light years and destroy a planet. He can't stop holding back when there is nothing in I reserve can he?
Or when he lifted infinity. You can't lift infinity if you can't increase your strength to match the increasing infinite weight. There are other examples also Up in the Sky superman is full of them.

Originally posted by carver9
His post is WRONG but it was detailed. Incorrect and inaccurate information throughout the entirety of it but i do thank him for the read.
Where is it inaccurate or incorrect? I could have said someone Cl 70- Cl 100 doesn't mean they can't lift more than 71 or a 100 tons. but that's the fallacy Marvel created b/c they never did a proper research on how much a house or airplane weights. Nevertheless everything I 've stated has been based on Marvel and DC stated limits. Don't hate b/c Marvel editors and writers are idiots when it comes to judging tonnage.

Besides this SM,WW and SG simply operate in a lvl of STR that no one outside of Hulk can match. On a Good day you might put Sentry,Thor, Herc, BM, Hyperion, Gladiator, SH and Namor also at that lvl but that's it.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I don't believe everything is retconned. I believe that a narrator will give us guidance. If they are not there, ITS a strong indicator that what we see.
is what we see.
If we see superman going all out, Then he's going all out. If it says superman is holding back, then he's holding back. If it says he didn't hold back or a character says he didn' t hold back with no objection then he was not holding back. If we seen a stronger punch( not some feat that people l try to intertwine with his striking power) than there is a chance he held back. Unless there is reason to consider the retcon or the inconsistency. Both feats at that time need to be evaluated more.( was he weaker, tired, something was different, incorrect context)

Okay, that's fine. So here's my question: Why does the narrator in Man of Tomorrow get given more weight then people like Johns, Loeb, or Morrison, to name three? People that have written either several arcs of Superman stories, singular long runs, or both? Those guys were all quite clear with their view of Superman's powers.

In Man of Tomorrow, we have a writer who is quite possibly a good writer. I don't know. I haven't read their other stuff. What I can see, though, is that they're either ignorant of continuity, or just plain ignoring it. So why should I, or anyone else, put my trust in that guy to set the standard for Superman?

That's the dilemma I have. Being more recent isn't enough of a reason for me. Not when other writers aren't following suit.

Originally posted by darthgoober
That's cool, I can totally understand what you're saying about all that. I got sidetracked for a minute getting into how I see it as being compatible, but I'm not actually trying to push WW as being faster than Supes here. My point was simply that we do as a matter of general course substitute our own versions of the characters for those the comics presents to some degree or another. Hell the comic versions are ALWAYS bound by the plot of the story so "No PIS" guarantees there's going to be some differences even before we start bringing up inconsistent writing. I disagree with Carver about Supes total lack of dynamic strength, I'm just saying that while Supes has repeatedly demonstrated what I consider to be dynamic strength, he hasn't consistently demonstrated it issue to issue the way that Hulk has so I can understand why some people might disagree.

Oh right, I see what you're saying. Forgive any misunderstanding on my part, please.

It honestly reminds me of when people used to debate the issue of Superman's speed on the forum. Because he didn't use it enough for people, the argument was that he didn't have it in any reliable way.

And yet, this completely disregarded the fact that against 90% of enemies, Superman just... didn't need to use his speed. Sure, you could make the argument that Superman doesn't use his speed as well as he could, but arguing that he doesn't have it? When not just comics but cartoons, movies, tv shows et al all have him use it as a stock power?

By that same token, multiple "big name" writers have said/implied that Superman, when under sufficient emotional stress, can use new levels of strength he wouldn't otherwise. You can call it super solar absorption. You can call it the Kryptonian equivalent of adrenaline on crack because, as much as some might hate to admit it, Superman, when he has to be, is to people like Zod and Supergirl as Captain America is to like, Hawkeye. And it wasn't just John Byrne that said so either.

Most of Superman's "I finally knocked the big bad out" feats come from a lack of holding back as much as before. Yes. This is true. Not Holding Back and Dynamic Strength just aren't mutually exclusive.

I'll leave it there anyway. Not gonna ramble any more than I have already. I just hope it made sense.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
A hangover? 😛

Man, I wish.

PR, I'll ADDRESS that when i come back, But i got a question.... WHY are you so DEDIDICATED to defending Supes THAT much? He's a trash character LITERALLY, no amount of excuses can be made THAT much for a character like that my god man

😂 Bro Deltas like that one crazy obsessed ex that comes on one a month to desperately seek your attention, ever since i dismantled that man months ago on a topic he SWORE he knew about he been on a mission lmaooo "LooK AlBeRto I'M bACK! Cmon LOLZ!" Thats the Alberto effect, they ALWAYS come back to prove themselves to me xD

and there's ZERO examples of Superman ever having "dynamic strength", BY all MEANS post it, and I'll dismantle all of them

Just because someone subconsciously limits himself doesn't mean he always does it, I subconsciously do not cuss around my mother. Doesn't mean I do not cuss when she isn't around. Or even a word has slipped out before. The world isn't so black and white. It's an ABSOLUTE fact its a myth, go argue with the writers about it 😂