Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
👆honestly seems like people tend to dig for things to be angry about sometimes.
i couldnt give a single f*ck what people call me, and i mean that with 100% sincerity....but i guess i have thicker skin then some.
i just dont get why some people feel the need to fixate so vehemently on making sure their peers use the "proper pronouns" towards them, and bash them if they get it wrong? who cares if someone misspeaks and doesnt call you by the gender you identify as? YOU being content and happy with the choices YOU made as an individual is all that should matter in the end. f*ck everyone else.
or at least thats how i see it. srug
If you're trans, you're dealing with the impact of a social threat when someone deliberately misgenders you. It's not the same.
Now, accidental misgenderings are different. But, honestly, I've met several trans people and I've never seen one get upset over honest accidents. That Gamestop lady feels like a much rarer occurrence than people think, and she had other mental issues if I recall that story correctly.
Trans people aren't just out jump kicking everyone they meet lol
Originally posted by StyleTime
You're also not legitimately at risk for society not accepting you as a male, and all the problems that come with that. You or I can easily shrug off being called a girl because there's no weight behind it: we know people don't actually think we're girls.If you're trans, you're dealing with the impact of a social threat when someone deliberately misgenders you. It's not the same.
Now, accidental misgenderings are different. But, honestly, I've met several trans people and I've never seen one get upset over honest accidents. That Gamestop lady feels like a much rarer occurrence than people think, and she had other mental issues if I recall that story correctly.
Trans people aren't just out jump kicking everyone they meet lol
Threat from whom? Cis-gender people?
Do even "enlightened allies" really care of any distinction other then "Not cis-gender"?
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXXThere isn't anyone specifically like that here, so idk what kind of a response you're looking for, but I have some thoughts to share.
first off, no disrespect whatsoever is intended here. seriously.if you're a male who identifies as female: cool. if you're a female who identifies as male: great. if you're either of the above and identify as a damn unicorn: awesome. anything can apply here.
but my question is- why do they care so much that their peers also identify them by their gender/pronoun of choice? why can't they just be content with the personal choice they've made and just leave it at that? why should other people be bashed for "assuming a gender"?
as long as YOU feel good about yourself, why give two shits what other people call you?
Personally, I ask people here to refer to me with female pronouns because I prefer it, but not everyone does, and that's okay, because I'm generally comfortable here. If a left-winger did it though, I'd call them out, because they're the ones who claim to fight for this kind of thing. The left on KMC is actually highly transphobic and supports transphobia in a very tangible way, despite being the kind of crazy fools who also support kids transitioning.
I ask my friends to refer to me by female pronouns because I attempt to pass as female socially, so it's just a matter of not wanting to have attention brought to the fact that I am, and always will be, male. If I had a friend who outright refused, I'd probably stop hanging out with them, as that would imply their ideology is more important than being decent to their friend, which I think is a fair rationale for not wanting to be friends with someone.
If someone is clearly trying their hardest to pass, whether male or female, then I think it's nicer to just give them the benefit of the doubt and use whatever pronouns they're presenting as. Using 'them/their' is fine if you're unsure. But I don't agree that it should be legally enforced, unless it constitutes actual harassment. If someone is trying their hardest to continually unmask someone as not their birth gender, they do so knowing that trans people can face violence from society, so that is bordering on actively trying to get someone assaulted, depending on the context.
Originally posted by dadudemonYeah, some people are just blessed. Plus hormones can do a lot for people.
Wow, she definitely passes. And those hormones did wonders for her transition.That probably pisses off a TON of transgender MtF and I actually feel sorry for their situation. Not everyone can be as blessed with those genes and outcome like that gal you posted.
I think it's easier for women to transition. Mostly because of the facial and body hair growth, deepening of the voice, masculinization of the face, and better musculature. Beautiful women generally become handsome men - the universe does not have justice. 🙂
I'm personally not going for hormones (or any surgery), as I'd rather just stick with my sex and act performatively female socially. I'm pretty easily squicked out by medical stuff tho, so that's also partially it. But even though I am blessed with a number of things: small hands, good butt, good legs, fairly small feet, somewhat androgynous face, a decent metabolism; I think many people will still be able to pin me as 'trans' and not just as a woman. Which I think I'm fine with, ultimately. But some men with Gender Dysphoria are built like bricklayers, so it's a lot harder for them.
Originally posted by jaden_2.0The good thing about almost-gendered vernacular is that most of that is basically unigender now anyway. Everyone can be a dude or a babe.
How often do people even refer to pronouns while in the company of the person they're talking about? Seems to me you'd just call them by their name. The closest you'd get is using some almost gendered vernacular like dude, babe, bro etc.
The cases are few and far between, but say if you go for a meal with someone, there are a few cases that can crop up. If they get there first, you might have to identify to the staff where your friend is sitting, in that case you'd say "he/she is sitting over there". Or if the waiter puts your friend's meal in front of you, you might say "oh, no, that's his/hers". But even in those cases you can get around it easily by phrasing things differently.
Honestly it's not all that common, and when it is, if someone really isn't comfortable with using 'conflicting' pronouns (or more likely, if they're just still getting used to it and trying their best not to mess it up), they can just phrase things differently.
Originally posted by Scribble
If I had a friend who outright refused, I'd probably stop hanging out with them, as that would imply their ideology is more important than being decent to their friend, which I think is a fair rationale for not wanting to be friends with someone.
And this is the gist of it. Just cut those toxic people out of your life. You can't chose your family but you can choose your friends.
Originally posted by Scribble
If someone is clearly trying their hardest to pass, whether male or female, then I think it's nicer to just give them the benefit of the doubt and use whatever pronouns they're presenting as. Using 'them/their' is fine if you're unsure. But I don't agree that it should be legally enforced, unless it constitutes actual harassment. If someone is trying their hardest to continually unmask someone as not their birth gender, they do so knowing that trans people can face violence from society, so that is bordering on actively trying to get someone assaulted, depending on the context.
I highly agree with this. I think free speech should be maintained. But harassment is not protected speech, like you said. Nothing really to change in the system.
Originally posted by Scribble
Yeah, some people are just blessed. Plus hormones can do a lot for people.I'm personally not going for hormones (or any surgery), as I'd rather just stick with my sex and act performatively female socially. I'm pretty easily squicked out by medical stuff tho, so that's also partially it. But even though I am blessed with a number of things: small hands, good butt, good legs, fairly small feet, somewhat androgynous face, a decent metabolism; I think many people will still be able to pin me as 'trans' and not just as a woman. Which I think I'm fine with, ultimately. But some men with Gender Dysphoria are built like bricklayers, so it's a lot harder for them.
Yes, you do look androgynous and that's a good thing.
Originally posted by Scribble
The good thing about almost-gendered vernacular is that most of that is basically unigender now anyway. Everyone can be a dude or a babe.The cases are few and far between, but say if you go for a meal with someone, there are a few cases that can crop up. If they get there first, you might have to identify to the staff where your friend is sitting, in that case you'd say "he/she is sitting over there". Or if the waiter puts your friend's meal in front of you, you might say "oh, no, that's his/hers". But even in those cases you can get around it easily by phrasing things differently.
Honestly it's not all that common, and when it is, if someone really isn't comfortable with using 'conflicting' pronouns (or more likely, if they're just still getting used to it and trying their best not to mess it up), they can just phrase things differently.
That reminds me.
Q99 was transgender (I don't know where Q99 landed with this as it can take some years to land on a comfortable decision). It wasn't quite the comfortable topic for Q99. So instead of constantly bringing it up with pronoun references, I just referred to Q99 by "Q99." Just avoid it. It makes for awkward references and sentences but if you like someone and value their opinion, you'll make an extra step to be kind to them.
Originally posted by StyleTime
You're also not legitimately at risk for society not accepting you as a male, and all the problems that come with that. You or I can easily shrug off being called a girl because there's no weight behind it: we know people don't actually think we're girls.If you're trans, you're dealing with the impact of a social threat when someone deliberately misgenders you. It's not the same.
Now, accidental misgenderings are different. But, honestly, I've met several trans people and I've never seen one get upset over honest accidents. That Gamestop lady feels like a much rarer occurrence than people think, and she had other mental issues if I recall that story correctly.
Trans people aren't just out jump kicking everyone they meet lol
Bingo. They would never insist on calling someone the wrong name, so why would they insist on calling someone the wrong pronoun? Because they get a little thrill out of clocking transgender people, and letting them know their place.
I would assume some trans people get upset or offended and some don't because like everyone else, they're people.
Just like some people get really pissed if u scuff their sneakers, other people just lick their thumb and wipe it off.
Some people if your gaze lingers too long on them will say some shit like "wtf are u looking at", others will just smile and nod.
I have a buddy who is a guy but likes to throw on some heels and a dress from time to time and hit the town. It doesn't matter what he's wearing, he doesn't give a shit what u call him. Dude, bro, he/she, him/her its all good with him.
I know another guy named Jon, he delivers parts to my shop. If u call him anything but Jon he loses his shit. He will literaly give the same spiel everytime. He will say-
"my name is Jon, its not johnny, its not Jonathan its Jon. My mother didn't name me Johnny or Jonathan, she named me Jon. Thats my name" -Jon
Originally posted by SquallXhow to totally miss the point.
So if I were to say I must be refers to as “His Holy Majesty” and people refuses, am I allowed to get mad?I have no right to demand anything from others when it comes to pronoun. You can ask, and depending on ones views, they could say sure, or no.
Originally posted by SquallX
So if I were to say I must be refers to as “His Holy Majesty” and people refuses, am I allowed to get mad?I have no right to demand anything from others when it comes to pronoun. You can ask, and depending on ones views, they could say sure, or no.
You're "allowed" to feel whatever you want mate. But there is a glaring amount of leeway between "I want to be referred to as royalty" and "I'm transitioning from one gender to the next." If you asked me to call you His Majesty, and instead I called you "Wanky" any chance I got, it's very fair for you to be like "this guy is intentionally being a dick to me" and for you to not talk to me.
That would be your call, Wanky.
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The individuals that I've worked with in the past have always been very kind and forgiving in terms of misgendering. In real life, I frequently use "dude" and "hey man" as greetings, or "that's really tough, man." When I would do this to the individuals who do not identify as male, I would apologize. They would tell me it was totally okay. Sometimes it's difficult to get used to - not as a concept, but just in speech. Especially when you've known someone before they began their transition.
Scribble - you say you'd "call out a leftist" for misgendering you under the principle of they "claim to want to stand up for that." Would you call me out in this way? Do you feel like there are "leftists" in your life who would purposefully misgender you?
The difference is in people's acceptance and support. Trying takes time, as all things do. I used to work at a Residential Group Home for people in various stages of Mental Health Recovery. We'd have weekly staff meetings to discuss our individuals, their progress, their struggles. During these meetings it was very easy for staff or visiting clinical supports to slip up and make these mistakes - and they would either correct themselves OR other staff would point out their slip. Keep in mind, the folks in question were not in the room at this point. But the support remained.