Perpetua and The Writer (Animal Man) vs Yog Sothoth and Azathoth

Originally posted by Astner
He's not though. He's a "fiction suit" as Morrison puts it, and he's a fictional character like everyone else, even if Morrison intended for him to have some god-like qualities at the time.

Where are you getting this from? Certainly not the comics.

is metaphor lost in translation here...

"...mastermind behind the scenes...puppeteer who pull the strings...I'm your writer"

"to hurt me you'd have to get into real world and that's something you can never do, you can't get into my world but i can get into yours, i can fake the real world here on comic page"

he wrote himself into the story, then he literally pull out the comic book he's appearing in

or when he shows animal man his script on the computer

the writer in this story represent grant morrison but it can be geoff johns in doomsday clock or mark waid in kingodm come

the writer is not one person specifically, it represents all writers writing comic stories, it just happens to be morrison here because he happens to show up in this specific story.
https://imgur.com/a/hjIRE1Y

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I can tell by the wording of his posts that he”s getting it from vs battles wiki. 🙂

I'm the one who helped made the writer wiki and a lot of dc cosmics pages on vsbattles you dummy

Originally posted by MrMind
is metaphor lost in translation here...

"...mastermind behind the scenes...puppeteer who pull the strings...I'm your writer"

"to hurt me you'd have to get into real world and that's something you can never do, you can't get into my world but i can get into yours, i can fake the real world here on comic page"

he wrote himself into the story, then he literally pull out the comic book he's appearing in

or when he shows animal man his script on the computer

Originally posted by MrMind
the writer in this story represent grant morrison but it can be geoff johns in doomsday clock or mark waid in kingodm come

Originally posted by MrMind
the writer is not one person specifically,

Originally posted by MrMind
I'm the one who helped made the writer wiki and a lot of dc cosmics pages on vsbattles you dummy

Wait, are YOU the Writer now?

Who wins,MrMind or Yogi/Azaroth or whatever?

Originally posted by Astner
No, the Writer is a character based on Grant Morrison that's currently deceased. There's no representation of Geoff Johns or Mard Waid as the Writer, or any implication that they're some kind of gods.

There's absolutely no canon evidence to support this assertion.

👆

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wait, are YOU the Writer now?

Who wins,MrMind or Yogi/Azaroth or whatever?

I was real active on vsbattles during 2017 and 2018 after I got pissed off about comicvine, back then their whole wiki pages are still new and some of us formed a group on discord to discuss the tiering system, I helped with some of the dc cosmic characters pages. since that's where I have some knowledge.

they are much more advanced now, and I'm proud that there are few people who are extremely knowledgable on dc cosmology there.

this is someone I knew, check out his blogpost, the best dc cosmology article ever written, ever

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog😛rinceOfTheMorning/DC_Cosmology_-_From_a_Holistic_Stance_on_the_Overall_Canon

I think you could win though.

Originally posted by MrMind
Cthulu has concept way superior than Dark Multiverse

Originally posted by MrMind
I was real active on vsbattles during 2017 and 2018 after I got pissed off about comicvine, back then their whole wiki pages are still new and some of us formed a group on discord to discuss the tiering system, I helped with some of the dc cosmic characters pages. since that's where I have some knowledge.

they are much more advanced now, and I'm proud that there are few people who are extremely knowledgable on dc cosmology there.

this is someone I knew, check out his blogpost, the best dc cosmology article ever written, ever

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog😛rinceOfTheMorning/DC_Cosmology_-_From_a_Holistic_Stance_on_the_Overall_Canon

Originally posted by Astner
Looking back at the thread it's interesting that Galan dismisses Suicide Squad #58 because Grant Morrison didn't write it, and Flex Mentallo because it was a Vertigo imprint rather than a DC imprint despite being written by Morrison.

Either way, from a technical standpoint the Writer (the character) is canonically dead. And as far as I'm aware Morrison hasn't even mentioned the character in any other work, from which a meaningful relation to the Overvoid could be made.

The Writer, as he appeared in Animal Man, was meant to be a literal avatar of Morrison himself -- a literal representation of the guy who was writing the story in the real world. For all intents and purposes, he was Morrison, and dictated absolutely everything that happened in the story itself:

So no, there really isn't a "higher authority" in comics than the guy who is writing the story you're reading.

That said, different writers can do whatever they want with characters later on(which is what Ostrander did with The Writer in Suicide Squad)... But that doesn't diminish The Writer's clearly-intended status within the pages of Animal Man(which is the specific version being used in this thread.)

If a thread specifies "pre-retcon" Beyonder, for example, we wouldn't use his loss against Kubik in F4 #319 to diminish him. Yes, they're canonically the same character, but where the thread is concerned, they're still treated as different versions all together. Same basic thing applies here.

I agree with you on that if someone wants to use one author's representation of a character that's perfectly fine. In fact I think it's preferable over the continuity composite, because characters tend to be consistent under any one author.

Originally posted by Galan007
Let's see if I can clarify a bit more...

The Writer, as he appeared in Animal Man, was meant to be a literal avatar of Morrison himself -- a literal representation of the guy who was writing the story in the real world. For all intents and purposes, he was Morrison, and dictated absolutely everything that happened in the story itself:

So no, there really isn't a "higher authority" in comics than the guy who is writing the story you're reading.

I just want to make this clear, because it seems like you're blurring the line between fiction and non-ficiton.

Originally posted by Mr Master
... not silly 'agents' of the RW writers, the actual writer and artist himself. 👆

Originally posted by Astner
I agree with you on that if someone wants to use one author's representation of a character that's perfectly fine. In fact I think it's preferable over the continuity composite, because characters tend to be consistent under any one author.

The Writer, as he appeared in Animal Man, is the version of the character specified in this thread. So that's the version we should be using.

Originally posted by Astner
You're using terms like "literal avatar" and "literal representation," so I'm assuming you're talking about a fiction-suit.

I just want to make this clear, because it seems like you're blurring the line between fiction and non-ficiton.

For all intents and purposes, the avatar was Morrison(yes, obviously in a fictional form.)

Originally posted by Astner
Would you, in this example consider John Byrne to be a "literal avatar" and "literal representation" of himself?

All that matters here is the level at which Morrison wrote his avatar in the Animal Man books specifically, as that is the character involved in this thread.

when pre retcom TOAA came as jack kirby avatar, TOAA was regarded as writers' avatar across forums, not just kirby's avatar, and wanked to no end.

wonder why The Writer's different

Originally posted by MrMind
when pre retcom TOAA came as jack kirby avatar, TOAA was regarded as writers' avatar across forums, not just kirby's avatar, and wanked to no end.

wonder why The Writer's different

They really aren't. Just as The Writer was retconned to lose in Suicide Squad, TOAA was retconned to get his power stolen by Thanos

Also, what exactly puts Azathoth above Perpetua? All of reality could be said to be it's dream, but in that same manner, all of reality can be said to be the imagination of 5D imps, and Perpetua vastly outranks them.

So Galan, how exactly would Morrison be operating in the context of this thread? Does he have author authority over Azzy and Yog? And if not, how does he contribute to this thread?

The cross-company lines certainly become a bit blurred in threads like this, but it should still fall under the 'full capacity' rule. So the Morrison avatar is assumed to be packing his full metafictional power/authority here.

Same vein as a theoretical "Presence vs. Marvel" thread. Even though the Presence, being associated solely with DC, doesn't have any direct 'authority' over anything in Marvel, we would still assume he's operating in his full capacity as God in such a thread.