MCU Spiderman vs. Ocean Master

Originally posted by Arachnid1
Anyone who fights Aquaman evenly stomps Spidey.

I dont recall Orm ever matching Aquaman with raw strength. He was winning when they fought underwater due to skill.

And orm lost when they fought outside of water. There was no point they were even. Either orm had the advantage or Arthur did. It was dependent on location.

I'm not even saying Orm loses, but his actual levels of strength seem vague. He utilized skill more than brute force. Skill that is largely neutralized here due to his training focusing on underwater combat and him being outmatched in terms of speed.

Imo if a human shaped object can move through water fast and easy then they are
1. Super strong as hell
2. Fast as hell outside of water

I see Spidey tagging OM more than the other way around but OM will hit Spidey and his hits will be more devastating (especially with the trident).

Peter wins.

Originally posted by h1a8
Imo if a human shaped object can move through water fast and easy then they are
1. Super strong as hell
2. Fast as hell outside of water

I see Spidey tagging OM more than the other way around but OM will hit Spidey and his hits will be more devastating (especially with the trident).

There goes h1 again ignoring context and the actual movie.

Your opinion is wrong because Atlanteans are fast because they have some sort of built-in underwater propulsion system. Its like how Superman can fly, but only underwater. We see this and know it true because they don't kick their legs when they swim. Its just like they've got a jet attached to them and they just go fast when they feel like it. And it even leaves trails behind them as they swim like torpedoes. When they're not trying to get somewhere or are just casually swimming around, they swim like normal humans and move around the same speed as us in the water. They only go fast when they turn on the jets.

1. They're strong and tough because they've adapted to living deep under the oceans. Vulko directly explains this to Arthur when he's training him as a kid. Underwater speed is due to the propulsion I pointed out.

2. That propulsion doesn't work out of water which is why Aquaman and every other Atlantean is as fast as a normal person out of the water. Aquaman had trouble hitting Black Manta in and out of his suit and he's just a skilled human. And his fight against Orm didn't show any advanced speed or reflexes from either of them. Nor did he show any enhanced speed against Stepoenwolf and the Parademons. Spidey on the other hand dodges hundreds of bullets while blind and hallucinating so he's on a different level than previous movies where his tingle didn't work.

And you're ignoring his webbing which Orm isn't dodging more than a bit of it before he gets wrapped up.

Originally posted by KingD19
There goes h1 again ignoring context and the actual movie.

Your opinion is wrong because Atlanteans are fast because they have some sort of built-in underwater propulsion system. Its like how Superman can fly, but only underwater. We see this and know it true because they don't kick their legs when they swim. Its just like they've got a jet attached to them and they just go fast when they feel like it. And it even leaves trails behind them as they swim like torpedoes. When they're not trying to get somewhere or are just casually swimming around, they swim like normal humans and move around the same speed as us in the water. They only go fast when they turn on the jets.

1. They're strong and tough because they've adapted to living deep under the oceans. Vulko directly explains this to Arthur when he's training him as a kid. Underwater speed is due to the propulsion I pointed out.

2. That propulsion doesn't work out of water which is why Aquaman and every other Atlantean is as fast as a normal person out of the water. Aquaman had trouble hitting Black Manta in and out of his suit and he's just a skilled human. And his fight against Orm didn't show any advanced speed or reflexes from either of them. Nor did he show any enhanced speed against Stepoenwolf and the Parademons. Spidey on the other hand dodges hundreds of bullets while blind and hallucinating so he's on a different level than previous movies where his tingle didn't work.

And you're ignoring his webbing which Orm isn't dodging more than a bit of it before he gets wrapped up.

I thought about that (propulsion system) too but that too is still speculation and therefore is also an opinion. Both takes are opinions. We have no visual evidence of what on their bodies is making them slice through the water other than their muscles.

It's funny how my opinion is wrong because of your opinion.

Thats not speculation. Its visually confirmed that they blast off like torpedoes when they use their speed and when they swim normally and kick their legs like humans, they move normal speeds. This happens multiple times throughout the movie.

Orm nor Arthur have shown enhanced speed on land. Feel free to provide evidence if im wrong. And Orm hasn't shown anywhere near as much strength as Arthur, because Arthur is a direct descendant of the first King and more powerful than even other royal Atlanteans. Its like comparing Loki to Thor, he's strong enough to fight him but he'll lose a strength competition every time and relies on his skill.

Whats there to think about? They don't slice through the water. We literally see them blast off like missiles and make a little tube of water around themselves as they go.

Your opinions are usually wrong. Ask anyone on the board. This isn't my opinion, its observations taken from statements and visual representation on the film.

Originally posted by KingD19
Yep. Spidey is basically one of the strongest/toughest/fastest heroes in the MCU and has copious amounts of webbing on top of that and can basically predict whatever Orm tries to do.

He is literally not even close to the strongest or toughest in the MCU. Not even top ten or 15.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
He is literally not even close to the strongest or toughest in the MCU. Not even top ten or 15.

Out of the heroes? He's surpassed in strength by

Hulk
Captain Marvel
Thor
Valkyrie
Vision(while amping with density control)
Giant Man(only in his giant form)
Iron Man with his stronger armors

Toughness
Hulk
Thor
Captain Marvel
Valkyrie
Vision
Giant Man
Iron Man armors
Drax(from the planet scene)

If you've got a list feel free to post it, because Spidey has some of the most impressive strength and durability feats of Earthbound heroes in the entire lineup. And even has feats surpassing alien heroes as well.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
He is literally not even close to the strongest or toughest in the MCU. Not even top ten or 15.

👆

Captain America whooped his ass hard

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
👆

Captain America whooped his ass hard

Cap didn't whoop his ass at all and saying he did is a blatant lie. He used his far better experience in a fight to outmaneuver a rookie Spidey because he knew he was physically outmatched, then he dropped a 30 ton sky bridge on him and ran away. In a direct strength contest, he had to do his super flip just to pull an unsuspecting Spidey off his feet.

YouTube video

50 Seconds in Spidey snags the shield and webs Cap up so well he needed Clint to cut it with an arrow. He only even gets the shield back because Ant-Man snuck up in tiny mode and stole it, since Peter didn't have his tingle yet.

YouTube video

2:40 Cap shield tosses Spidey's webline, causing him to fall and Spidey points out how it directly ignores the laws of physics after it ricochets at an impossible angle right back to him.

2:50 Spidey double webs Cap, pulls him in and slide kicks him into a unit and forces him to drop the shield.

3:05 he webs Cap up and he can't get out so he turns to Spidey to create slack in the webline, then does the flip to yank him past him. There's that combat experience I was talking about.

3:35 Spidey webs the shield and Cap uses his free hand to again create slack in the line and yank him forward, Peter is a rookie and has no actual skills aside from his powers.

3:50 Cap has gotten used to his web patterns and dodges a blast then kicks him into the sky bridge, which he then proceeds to drop on his head and leave.

Cap outskilled him 100%, but he didn't beat his ass, he used his environment to keep Spidey off balance until he could escape the fight.

If h1 is going to claim they are super-fast out of water, he has to provide examples of them being super-fast out of water.

Just to be clear, his "speculation" on what he thinks should be true isn't proof.

I didn't know you had it entirely "Earthbound heroes" I thought you meant in entire MCU.

Luke Cage
Valkyrie, and Loki would all be beyond his strength and toughness and Sif would be even.

Out of MCU abom,kurse, malekith, Ultron, black dwarf etc. etc..

Y'all have me from Orm to undecided though. Those webs can be a problem when used correctly even if the opponent is strong enough to break them

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
I didn't know you had it entirely "Earthbound heroes" I thought you meant in entire MCU.

Luke Cage
Valkyrie, and Loki would all be beyond his strength and toughness and Sif would be even.

Out of MCU abom,kurse, malekith, Ultron, black dwarf etc. etc..

Y'all have me from Orm to undecided though. Those webs can be a problem when used correctly even if the opponent is strong enough to break them

Luke Cage is not stronger than him. Not even close. Even the sky bridge feat from Civil War is above Luke's best strength feat. And he has many that surpass that. I already mentioned Valkyrie if you look at my list. Loki is like Orm, he is strong enough to fight Thor, but as far as we know is a Frost Giant with good lineage and access to magic, so his only strength feats are from fighting Thor. Sif has fewer impressive feats as well. Nothing she's done Spidey can't do based on feats.

I never mentioned MCU people in general, only heroes. And Malekith also has no strength feats, he was simply boosted by the Aether.

Originally posted by KingD19
Thats not speculation. Its visually confirmed that they blast off like torpedoes when they use their speed and when they swim normally and kick their legs like humans, they move normal speeds. This happens multiple times throughout the movie.

Orm nor Arthur have shown enhanced speed on land. Feel free to provide evidence if im wrong. And Orm hasn't shown anywhere near as much strength as Arthur, because Arthur is a direct descendant of the first King and more powerful than even other royal Atlanteans. Its like comparing Loki to Thor, he's strong enough to fight him but he'll lose a strength competition every time and relies on his skill.

Whats there to think about? They don't slice through the water. We literally see them blast off like missiles and make a little tube of water around themselves as they go.

Your opinions are usually wrong. Ask anyone on the board. This isn't my opinion, its observations taken from statements and visual representation on the film.

How do you know the writer isn't intending on them using muscles to slice through water like that?

They stalemated multiple times in a contest of strength. Therefore, they should be close in strength to each other.

I do agree with you on the speed outside water. Neither is terribly fast if you go solely on visuals. But neither is spider-man. That's why I stated that Spider-man will tag OM far more times than the other way around. It's just that OM's hits would be more damaging.

Originally posted by KingD19
Luke Cage is not stronger than him. Not even close. Even the sky bridge feat from Civil War is above Luke's best strength feat. And he has many that surpass that. I already mentioned Valkyrie if you look at my list. Loki is like Orm, he is strong enough to fight Thor, but as far as we know is a Frost Giant with good lineage and access to magic, so his only strength feats are from fighting Thor. Sif has fewer impressive feats as well. Nothing she's done Spidey can't do based on feats.

I never mentioned MCU people in general, only heroes. And Malekith also has no strength feats, he was simply boosted by the Aether.

I don't see Spidey casually bending a full steel handgun like Luke did.
The sky bridge is Spidey's best feat. Based off how casual Luke did then I would say he too can achieve that same feat.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
👆

Captain America whooped his ass hard

Originally posted by KingD19
Cap didn't whoop his ass at all and saying he did is a blatant lie. He used his far better experience in a fight to outmaneuver a rookie Spidey because he knew he was physically outmatched, then he dropped a 30 ton sky bridge on him and ran away. In a direct strength contest, he had to do his super flip just to pull an unsuspecting Spidey off his feet.

YouTube video

50 Seconds in Spidey snags the shield and webs Cap up so well he needed Clint to cut it with an arrow. He only even gets the shield back because Ant-Man snuck up in tiny mode and stole it, since Peter didn't have his tingle yet.

YouTube video

2:40 Cap shield tosses Spidey's webline, causing him to fall and Spidey points out how it directly ignores the laws of physics after it ricochets at an impossible angle right back to him.

2:50 Spidey double webs Cap, pulls him in and slide kicks him into a unit and forces him to drop the shield.

3:05 he webs Cap up and he can't get out so he turns to Spidey to create slack in the webline, then does the flip to yank him past him. There's that combat experience I was talking about.

3:35 Spidey webs the shield and Cap uses his free hand to again create slack in the line and yank him forward, Peter is a rookie and has no actual skills aside from his powers.

3:50 Cap has gotten used to his web patterns and dodges a blast then kicks him into the sky bridge, which he then proceeds to drop on his head and leave.

Cap outskilled him 100%, but he didn't beat his ass, he used his environment to keep Spidey off balance until he could escape the fight.

Cap showed he was stronger and a better fighter

Go on to cry for 10 more paragraphs

Originally posted by h1a8
How do you know the writer isn't intending on them using muscles to slice through water like that?

They stalemated multiple times in a contest of strength. Therefore, they should be close in strength to each other.

I do agree with you on the speed outside water. Neither is terribly fast if you go solely on visuals. But neither is spider-man. That's why I stated that Spider-man will tag OM far more times than the other way around. It's just that OM's hits would be more damaging.

I don't see Spidey casually bending a full steel handgun like Luke did.
The sky bridge is Spidey's best feat. Based off how casual Luke did then I would say he too can achieve that same feat.

Because we never see them move their body when they "fly" through the water. They just start moving at full speed from wherever they are. Sometimes they even just lean forward and take off. So if it uses muscles, they'd need to explain some sort of vibration or whatever that makes them move. You're saying "muscles" when they aren't moving except maneuvering as they go along. That's the only visual representation we get of them using their muscles.

Loki stalemated Thor multiple times, but he is nowhere near him in terms of strength. And Thor has stalemated Hulk, but he's weaker than him as well. Just because you can stand against someone in a fight doesn't mean you're near them in pure strength. Skill comes into play as well, like how Cap "overpowered" Spidey by using his skill.

Spidey is actually insanely fast in speed and reaction time if you watched the multiple movies he's in. Even before the tingle, he still had some of the best. Spidey has actually better strength feats than Orm as well, like blocking a full hit from Cull Obsidian meant to kill Iron Man..

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Cap showed he was stronger and a better fighter

Go on to cry for 10 more paragraphs

I said in that very response that "Cap outskilled him 100%". Cap is nowhere near as strong as Spidey though. I can post feats from both that show the clear gap and you can then be quiet. But it's obvious you're being your usual self and only want to disprove what I say by talking and not actually ya know...disproving anything I say.

Originally posted by KingD19
Because we never see them move their body when they "fly" through the water. They just start moving at full speed from wherever they are. Sometimes they even just lean forward and take off. So if it uses muscles, they'd need to explain some sort of vibration or whatever that makes them move. You're saying "muscles" when they aren't moving except maneuvering as they go along. That's the only visual representation we get of them using their muscles.

Loki stalemated Thor multiple times, but he is nowhere near him in terms of strength. And Thor has stalemated Hulk, but he's weaker than him as well. Just because you can stand against someone in a fight doesn't mean you're near them in pure strength. Skill comes into play as well, like how Cap "overpowered" Spidey by using his skill.

Spidey is actually insanely fast in speed and reaction time if you watched the multiple movies he's in. Even before the tingle, he still had some of the best. Spidey has actually better strength feats than Orm as well, like blocking a full hit from Cull Obsidian meant to kill Iron Man..

Loki you have somewhat a point because of how Hulk handled Loki.
But we never got any contradiction with OM.

AM did move his muscles when he jetted through the water
😕

Skill had shit to do with how AM and OM stalemated each other. Let's not deflect to something irrelevant now. We go by writers intention and not pretending these events actually happened. AM could be stronger but not by a lot.

Visually Spidey was never that fast. Not superhuman fast. OM and AM fought at peak human speeds (attack and defense).

Originally posted by h1a8
So stalemating someone in strength is meaningless if there is nothing else to contradict it?

Loki you have somewhat a point because of how Hulk handled Loki.
But we never got any contradiction with OM.

AM did move his muscles when he jetted through the water
😕

Skill had shit to do with how AM and OM stalemated each other. Let's not deflect to something irrelevant now. We go by writers intention and not pretending these events actually happened. AM could be stronger but not by a lot.

Visually Spidey was never that fast. Not superhuman fast. OM and AM fought at peak human speeds (attack and defense).

Matching up with someone does not equal stalemate. A stalemate would be neither ever gets a leg up on the other except only for skill. Arthur by feats is stronger and looked stronger in their fights, but Orm stayed extremely competitive because he'd been trained by the best Atlantis had to offer for his entire life, including right up until Arthur came back.

If I recall he was actually one of the best fighters Atlantis had. Arthur on the other hand got a single training session from Vulko and then didn't see him again for 20+ years. He didn't train that entire time. Orm suffers from only having his fights with him to draw from where he was a much better fighter, but not as powerful, but that's the nature of the beast.

Loki I have an absolute point with, because even without Hulk ragdolling him, Loki also was worthless against Kurse if not for the gravity grenade, and chose to primarily use his knives and his magic because that's what he's better at. Even in Thor against Frost Giants, he never just outright beat one down.

He's only got less and worse strength showings than Thor, and he is skilled enough to last in a fight but overwhelmed physically.

What part of the movie are you talking about? Him maneuvering as he speeds along doesn't count. Got a scan or a video scene? Because I'm not looking it up for you and I'm not going off your word either when evidence is so readily available.

Spidey was visually never that fast? Did you watch Civil War, Homecoming, Endgame, Infinity War or Far From Home? He's got some of the best and fastest reactions out of every hero and better than most villains.

Before the Tingle

Dodging Giant Man who was fast enough to snatch War Machine out of the sky as he was growing. - https://gfycat.com/helplesseleganthuia
Clipped in the legs by a car he couldn't see, then immediately rights himself so fast he can bounce off the next car a split second later - https://gfycat.com/madeupseparateibadanmalimbe
Dodges energy blasts from Vulture - https://gfycat.com/weepywiltedeuropeanfiresalamander
Shocker pulls the trigger to shoot him and we hear the gun go off, but he webs it and yanks it away before the bullet leaves the barrel - https://gfycat.com/creamycraftyizuthrush
Dodged an energy blast from close range while getting dragged on his ass behind a van - https://gfycat.com/cleanelderlyeastrussiancoursinghounds
Fast enough to web Mjolnir as it flies overhead while fighting off dozens of Outriders and literally getting dragged into a swarm - https://gfycat.com/welldocumentedpointlesscatfish
Webs up a house in seconds while maneuvering through it as it collapses - https://gfycat.com/shockingbonyamoeba
Is fast enough to jump out of the bus, web the rock behind the drone and both the drones guns before it can fire, then land back in the bus before anyone can turn back around. - https://gfycat.com/bittercoordinatedjackal
Webs dozens of points on the ferry as he jumps and flips around - https://gfycat.com/indolentopulentbasil
Dodges a large caliber bullet fired from behind him at nearly point blank range. Fury who is human didn't dodge it. And he dodged after it fired. - https://gfycat.com/lamecreativeaustralianfurseal
Evades close range gunfire from multiple directions at once - https://gfycat.com/apprehensivedeadlygander

Dodging bullets and missiles in mid-air - https://gfycat.com/harmoniousremotebandicoot

After the Tingle
https://gfycat.com/glitteringfoolisharrowana - Effortlessly dodges tons of drones and their bullets and missiles while tearing them apart and unable to actually see them.
https://gfycat.com/opulentaggressivedavidstiger - Diverts an invisible Mysterio from shooting him in the head from point blank range and behind him.

Spidey is faster in both movement speed and reflexes than most people in the MCU. I've got more feats I can post but I think I disproved your opinion about Spidey not being visually fast.