Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
IF Orn is underwater, he stompson land, Peter can easily evade him. Even if by chance Orn tags him, Peter can tank it due to his durability. Orn gets eventually webbed up
Ya the fight comes down to this. Peter won't get touched by Orm, his webs are strong enough and, a point to factor in here, accurate enough to web up Orm's trident. So, you have a guy that can dodge all incoming hits from his opponent, disarm his opponent, tie up his opponent, and is stronger by feats than his opponent.
Orm was a great over-the-top villain, and I like Pat Wilson as an actor, and his feats amongst the other Atlanteans and sea creatures are impressive, but don't see how Peter Peter the Pumpkin Eater loses this one.
Originally posted by BrolyBlackTo be fair, Spidey got buffed pretty hard in his movies. Especially in FFH. He has a fully functioning spidey sense now (no way dropping an airport ramp on him would work at this point), and is a straight up bullet timer to boot. Cap would get straight up stomped at this point. Iron Man in the same conditions as the Cap/WS fight would lose. Plus, to be fair, Spidey stomped both Winter Soldier and Falcon in that same movie he "lost" to Cap. WS alone is Cap level. IMO that was more of a "we can't let Cap lose to a kid in his own movie" kind of fight, so they used the ramp to end the encounter and explained it be the inconsistent spidey sense. Especially since Pete could have taken him out by just pouring on the webbing. Instead, they made him fight like an idiot (which is fine since he was a rookie).
I’ve never seen someone go to so much length to defend Spider-Man it’s bizarre.Cap wrecked him and then tony told him to go home
Also, Orm still stomps.
Originally posted by SurturHe literally overpowered Arthur in their first fight and pushed him through an underwater cliffside.
I dont recall Orm ever matching Aquaman with raw strength. He was winning when they fought underwater due to skill.And orm lost when they fought outside of water. There was no point they were even. Either orm had the advantage or Arthur did. It was dependent on location.
I'm not even saying Orm loses, but his actual levels of strength seem vague. He utilized skill more than brute force. Skill that is largely neutralized here due to his training focusing on underwater combat and him being outmatched in terms of speed.
The same Arthur who can easily push a submarine above the surface.
Originally posted by KingD19
Matching up with someone does not equal stalemate. A stalemate would be neither ever gets a leg up on the other except only for skill. Arthur by feats is stronger and looked stronger in their fights, but Orm stayed extremely competitive because he'd been trained by the best Atlantis had to offer for his entire life, including right up until Arthur came back.If I recall he was actually one of the best fighters Atlantis had. Arthur on the other hand got a single training session from Vulko and then didn't see him again for 20+ years. He didn't train that entire time. Orm suffers from only having his fights with him to draw from where he was a much better fighter, but not as powerful, but that's the nature of the beast.
Loki I have an absolute point with, because even without Hulk ragdolling him, Loki also was worthless against Kurse if not for the gravity grenade, and chose to primarily use his knives and his magic because that's what he's better at. Even in Thor against Frost Giants, he never just outright beat one down.
He's only got less and worse strength showings than Thor, and he is skilled enough to last in a fight but overwhelmed physically.
What part of the movie are you talking about? Him maneuvering as he speeds along doesn't count. Got a scan or a video scene? Because I'm not looking it up for you and I'm not going off your word either when evidence is so readily available.
Spidey was visually never that fast? Did you watch Civil War, Homecoming, Endgame, Infinity War or Far From Home? He's got some of the best and fastest reactions out of every hero and better than most villains.
Before the Tingle
Dodging Giant Man who was fast enough to snatch War Machine out of the sky as he was growing. - https://gfycat.com/helplesseleganthuia
Clipped in the legs by a car he couldn't see, then immediately rights himself so fast he can bounce off the next car a split second later - https://gfycat.com/madeupseparateibadanmalimbe
Dodges energy blasts from Vulture - https://gfycat.com/weepywiltedeuropeanfiresalamander
Shocker pulls the trigger to shoot him and we hear the gun go off, but he webs it and yanks it away before the bullet leaves the barrel - https://gfycat.com/creamycraftyizuthrush
Dodged an energy blast from close range while getting dragged on his ass behind a van - https://gfycat.com/cleanelderlyeastrussiancoursinghounds
Fast enough to web Mjolnir as it flies overhead while fighting off dozens of Outriders and literally getting dragged into a swarm - https://gfycat.com/welldocumentedpointlesscatfish
Webs up a house in seconds while maneuvering through it as it collapses - https://gfycat.com/shockingbonyamoeba
Is fast enough to jump out of the bus, web the rock behind the drone and both the drones guns before it can fire, then land back in the bus before anyone can turn back around. - https://gfycat.com/bittercoordinatedjackal
Webs dozens of points on the ferry as he jumps and flips around - https://gfycat.com/indolentopulentbasil
Dodges a large caliber bullet fired from behind him at nearly point blank range. Fury who is human didn't dodge it. And he dodged after it fired. - https://gfycat.com/lamecreativeaustralianfurseal
Evades close range gunfire from multiple directions at once - https://gfycat.com/apprehensivedeadlyganderDodging bullets and missiles in mid-air - https://gfycat.com/harmoniousremotebandicoot
After the Tingle
https://gfycat.com/glitteringfoolisharrowana - Effortlessly dodges tons of drones and their bullets and missiles while tearing them apart and unable to actually see them.
https://gfycat.com/opulentaggressivedavidstiger - Diverts an invisible Mysterio from shooting him in the head from point blank range and behind him.Spidey is faster in both movement speed and reflexes than most people in the MCU. I've got more feats I can post but I think I disproved your opinion about Spidey not being visually fast.
Spider-Man is faster than OM. No one is arguing otherwise. I even stated from the very beginning that Spidey will land more blows than the other way around.
Spider-Man is not visually much faster than OM. Is that a false statement?
I agree that Spidey wins now. But only because of the tingle. But it will take a hell of a lot of hits from Spidey. Without the tingle then the slight edge goes to OM.
But make no mistake, Spidey can definitely lose some due to the speed OM can attack and the one shot ability OM has.
Originally posted by KingD19
Orm nor Arthur have shown enhanced speed on land. Feel free to provide evidence if im wrong.
Sure thing buddy. 👆
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwlzD9Ncv4k
And no, I'm not saying he is as quick or agile as Peter.
It doesn't matter though. Orm is much stronger and yes I do think he could break Peter's webbing.
Originally posted by Arachnid1
To be fair, Spidey got buffed pretty hard in his movies. Especially in FFH. He has a fully functioning spidey sense now (no way dropping an airport ramp on him would work at this point), and is a straight up bullet timer to boot. Cap would get straight up stomped at this point. Iron Man in the same conditions as the Cap/WS fight would lose. Plus, to be fair, Spidey stomped both Winter Soldier and Falcon in that same movie he "lost" to Cap. WS alone is Cap level. IMO that was more of a "we can't let Cap lose to a kid in his own movie" kind of fight, so they used the ramp to end the encounter and explained it be the inconsistent spidey sense. Especially since Pete could have taken him out by just pouring on the webbing. Instead, they made him fight like an idiot (which is fine since he was a rookie).Also, Orm still stomps.
Well said
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00QMS3Ldb20
Just.noticed this. At 1:35 Arthur pushes Orm's head into those propeller.like things but Orm's isn't much affected by thise repeatedly hitting his head. Even with a helmet, which is s ceremonial one IIRC, that's impressive
It's not bad. But the implication there to me also seemed that the armor was largely actually protecting him and that getting a more direct hit wouldn't end well for him, hence why Arthur was pushing him in there and he was trying so hard to resist. But without him actually getting pushed in, it's hard to say. Maybe it would have ended things right there. Maybe he would have shrugged it off like nothing. Often in these films, certain things get hyped up or implied to be super dangerous or something but then ends up being kinda nothing to the heroes/villains supposedly in danger. *cough*Sokoviaexplosion*cough*
Hype? I doubt a random ship's propeller would have any hype behind it.
Plus about the Sokovia stuff, no-one, not the audience, not Iron Man, not even Thor himself has any knowledge of Thor surviving anything similar, so its understandable they were worried. If it was comic Thor both he and the reader would laugh at a city exploding
If you want hype in Aquaman, the movie actually delivered it
Vulko's water shield, the Atlantean gun Orm gave black manta, arthur growing orm's lines of the will of gods and half-breed back in his face, Atlan's trident, Orm talking about the Karathen, vulko talking about Orm's skills etc
When they meant the death of Aquaman is useless jokes, they meant it
I wasn't applying the word "hype" strictly to that example. More a general observation. And Thor had already survived the Bifrost explosion at that point as well as Odin launching him across space via dark matter manipulation (leaving a meteor-like impact crater in the process), so he had. And that's not the point anyway. The point is having the writer include some implied mortal threat and then neither are seriously harmed. Or the Time Stone in Dr Strange, where we keep getting told using it can have terrible repercussions, and then Strange just goes balls to the wall at the end and nothing bad happens.
So, to the point I was actually making, maybe the propeller would have seriously hurt him if he got pushed fully into it. The implication seems to be that it would have. But it's impossible to say for certain because it didn't actually happen.
Not saying you're lying, but that's a shame then. I don't care who wins here, but Arthur isn't even the strongest Atlantean he just...knows how to fight really well above water? That is it? What separates him and Orm is some above ground William Dafoe training?
Shitty. It would have been so easy to show it wasn't Orm's physical strength that was letting him come out victorious there.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Sure thing buddy. 👆https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwlzD9Ncv4k
And no, I'm not saying he is as quick or agile as Peter.
It doesn't matter though. Orm is much stronger and yes I do think he could break Peter's webbing.
Her acts more Lobo than Aquaman, and that’s why after Justice League, I never cared to see his stand alone flick.
Originally posted by SurturIs it really so hard to youtube "Orm vs. Aquaman"? 👇
Not saying you're lying, but that's a shame then. I don't care who wins here, but Arthur isn't even the strongest Atlantean he just...knows how to fight really well above water? That is it? What separates him and Orm is some above ground William Dafoe training?Shitty. It would have been so easy to show it wasn't Orm's physical strength that was letting him come out victorious there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlUHCQEg6OA
At about 1:48.
And it's not so much that Orm is stronger than Aquaman, just that they are comparable.
Also, Aquaman's edge being something gay like greater strength due to superior genetics is way shittier than Arthur baiting Orm into fighting him in an environment he has more experience in, especially since it emphasizes that Arthur is the worthier king because he has master land and sea. 👇