Originally posted by Philosophía [/i]
Just to reiterate your positions:
- Kyle can contain the Big Bang, so it's quite possible he is more powerful than Galactus, depending on how many planets the latter has eaten thumb up
Yeah, I mean Galactus ranges from Starving to Satiated that would not be impossible since a Thor godblast has caused a hungry Galactus to flee before. So Galactus could eat it or depending on his fluctuating condition be in serious trouble.
Originally posted by Philosophía [/i]
- most of the time Kyle can "probably" not solo a million Wonder Women thumb up
Pretty much because she too has feats that involve characters at universal and multiversal level. Blocking the power of the entire Olympian Pantheon for one, hell I remember that time it was stated her body could endure the force of a 100 billion galaxies, ridiculous but it happened. Plus he speed, lasso, skills, and bracers, and yeah he's going to have problems because of the feats she has performed and she is relative to other herald level characters if you want to call them that in the DC universe.
Originally posted by Philosophía [/i]
- Black Adam's punches can destroy Universes and surpass the big bang thumb up
Again, he matches Shazam who can shake the cosmos with his punches fighting Lobo, yes? Shazam under Grant Morrison can help lift the Multiverse yes? So again what's the problem Phil? Does a character require to be seen at universal level in every arc for the feats to stick or does it only require a one time seen feat Goku vs Beerus but that becomes a standard for DBZ and not western comic characters because of the multiple writers vs one writer inconsistency rule?
Originally posted by Philosophía [/i]
- Martian Manhunter can tank a moon-busting attack with a smile because .. his heat vision is close to as hot as the big bang! thumb up
Well he did turn into a dragon and fly straight through the moon with ease Phil. And he can take punches from people that can lift universes. So again 😎
Originally posted by Philosophía [/i]
- Wonder Woman can tank a moon-busting attack with a smile because .. she lassoed the Phantom Stranger thumb up Also averages are imaginary, because she has low showings.
See above for the answer. I now know you must despise that 100 billion galaxies feat she has or any feat above your head cannon averages that you constructed that limits herald level characters to a predetermined power cap that I'm sorry Phil has never existed in their own respective universes.
It doesn't exist Phil and the proof is in the characters feats. The fact that the editor and writing teams had no issue printing characters perform these kinds of stunts tell how much they don't really care about them and see them in a nebulous power range where any writer can step in and start shooting the dials to 11 if it is necessary to tell their story.
Take Jeph Loeb in Our Worlds at War. Here we have a single Imperiex Probe walking through 100,000 solar powered daxamites (each stated to be near Powergirl level in the same story) wearing daxamite war suits. Yet are Imperiex Probes listed at abstract level, no they are at high herald level on the tiers thread. So right there on KMC a character being powerful enough to walk through 100,000 other herald level beings amped is still only herald level according to KMC Tiers and terminology.
Imperiex Probes contain part of the Big Bang's power literally and go around converting whole galaxies into energy and on and on...herald level, says so on KMC tier thread. http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t659442.html
I have no idea why this is ground breaking or something out of the ordinary.
Hell looking at some of those names there like Firestorm, thats another with big bang power thanks to the firestorm matrix.
Originally posted by Philosophía [/i]
Look -- Sensui, you're making me laugh, truly, but this has to stop at some point. Screaming "there's no such thing as averages" when there's plenty of people perfectly capable and knowledgeable enough to understand and approximate them as thus, doesn't say anything about the averages themselves -- but about your inability [or lack of perspective/knowledge] to understand them yourself.
Phil, no one on this board (not abhi, rage, celey, dambo, Bran, Mr. Mind, Galan etc) can even agree on if Rune King Thor is more powerful than Odin or not. They don't agree on if the Chaos King is only Universal or Multiversal (a heck of a difference). Everyone has their own head cannon on what an average Thor, Flash, Silver Sufer, Superman etc should be capable and it varies wildly between posters, ever since this boards creation. There is no average just head cannon and picking the feats we like and don't like.
Abhi says Skyfathers aren't galaxy level, Mr Mind disagrees and there is nothing wrong with this because I'm sure both can probably find a comic to back their opinion on this subject up. As I mentioned Dan Jurgens says Skyfathers are planetary level and wrote Odin dying against Surtur in a city leveling explosion but Jason Aaron is going to write Odin vs the Mother Storm a galactic feat for sure.
I really wish you would answer the questions not make memes and graphs but actual answer where certain characters would rank in DBZ and give your reasoning for them but hey c'est la vie.
Originally posted by PhilosophíaI guess I'm still just curious why some people are so hesitant to rank Piccolo's feat? That's all I've been asking for over the last several pages: who is the weakest comic character who can one-shot a moon casually?
Just to reiterate your positions:
- Kyle can contain the Big Bang, so it's quite possible he is more powerful than Galactus, depending on how many planets the latter has eaten 👆
- most of the time Kyle can "probably" not solo a million Wonder Women 👆
- Black Adam's punches can destroy Universes and surpass the big bang 👆
- Martian Manhunter can tank a moon-busting attack with a smile because .. his heat vision is close to as hot as the big bang! 👆
- Wonder Woman can tank a moon-busting attack with a smile because .. she lassoed the Phantom Stranger 👆 Also averages are imaginary, because she has low showings.Good to know 👆
Could Wonder Woman also surpass the Big Bang with a punch? Mongul? Kalibak?
How about Iron Man? I'm sure -- seeing as how even in the Silver Age he was as strong as Thor, he has no doubt reached the level where Tony can easily do so. Everybody who has read comics can tell you that.Look -- Sensui, you're making me laugh, truly, but this has to stop at some point. Screaming "there's no such thing as averages" when there's plenty of people perfectly capable and knowledgeable enough to understand and approximate them as thus, doesn't say anything about the averages themselves -- but about your inability [or lack of perspective/knowledge] to understand them yourself.
You do you, while we try to have a rational discussion and come to a consensus 🙂
I mean, I obviously know *why* very few want to answer(because the implications of Piccolo already being that powerful are pretty absurd.)
But these people should really take solace in the fact that DB doesn't even get into solar system busting until the end of the Cell saga... So no matter how high Freeza, SS1 Goku, or the Androids scale above Saiyan saga Piccolo, for example, we still know that no one was capable of destroying a solar system until SPC entered the fray.
Originally posted by Galan007👆
I guess I'm still just curious why some people are so hesitant to rank Piccolo's feat? That's all I've been asking for over the last several pages: who is the weakest comic character who can one-shot a moon casually?I mean, I obviously know *why* very few want to answer(because the implications of Piccolo already being that powerful are pretty absurd.)
But these people should really take solace in the fact that DB doesn't even get into solar system busting until the end of the Cell saga... So no matter how high Freeza, SS1 Goku, or the Androids scale above Saiyan saga Piccolo, for example, we still know that no one was capable of destroying a solar system until SPC entered the fray.
It's funny this thread went to Nappa vs Thanos and hilarious positions "averages doesn't exist, Kyle > Galactus and Black Adam can one-shot Universes" really quick but -- and while we got some insight in how some people *think* - the most fundamental question that really started it all, which is to find a comparable character to Piccolo [and Raditz, for that matter] is sidestepped furiously.
I'm curious what Bran thinks as an equivalent, tbh, since he seems to get the topic entirely. Or Damborg, but he is too busy rage-kissing abhi.
----
I think I'm going to have some fun, in the meanwhile, and go through Dragon Ball just for the sake of it and ask which metas can replicate certain feats. Not for scaling purposes [Piccolo/Raditz do just fine], but just to get some views.
Originally posted by Galan007
I guess I'm still just curious why some people are so hesitant to rank Piccolo's feat? That's all I've been asking for over the last several pages: who is the weakest comic character who can one-shot a moon casually?I mean, I obviously know *why* very few want to answer(because the implications of Piccolo already being that powerful are pretty absurd.)
But these people should really take solace in the fact that DB doesn't even get into solar system busting until the end of the Cell saga... So no matter how high SS1 Goku scales above Saiyan saga Piccolo, for example, we still know he wasn't capable of destroying a solar system.
I can't speak for others but I answered the question pages ago when DeadpoolXXX asked me (low ball it High Meta Cyclops, Mandarin, high ball it Nate Grey Herald Level) and explained why I feel that way but we can't get anyone to answer the questions of where other characters would rank in dragonball.
Not the Flash. Not Upside Down Man, Swamp Thing, Krona, anything....its just Nappa is Thanos Level, or Raditz is Mid Herald, so okay is Freeza by powerscaling Abstract Tier on Namek? Since he's a gazillion 120 million times more powerful than Moon buster Piccolo? If not, why?
Originally posted by Galan007thats true. despite the huge gains between the saiyan and cell arcs, no energy projection would scale past solar system level regardless.....because that's as high as it gets until the buu arc.
I guess I'm still just curious why some people are so hesitant to rank Piccolo's feat? That's all I've been asking for over the last several pages: who is the weakest comic character who can one-shot a moon casually?I mean, I obviously know *why* very few want to answer(because the implications of Piccolo already being that powerful are pretty absurd.)
But these people should really take solace in the fact that DB doesn't even get into solar system busting until the end of the Cell saga... So no matter how high Freeza, SS1 Goku, or the Androids scale above Saiyan saga Piccolo, for example, we still know that no one was capable of destroying a solar system until SPC entered the fray.
but if spc can wipe out a solar system, then how powerful do you think a character has to be to destroy a star?
@Galan...
Do you believe someone at King Vegeta power level could truly do something like this?
Originally posted by carver9
He said Cyclops could easily destroy the moon. 😂 Mandarin, wtf. Nate Grey. I need to see showings of this and casually. Also, it needs to be a standard for the character, not a high showing.
Well Mandarin's rings were stated to have the power to rip the Moon apart. Cyclops boasts against Juggernaut his blast can destroy small moons, Nate Grey has done so on panel X-man #45.
And again there is no "standard" Carver9. Just folks cherry picking the feats they like, feats they don't like. Like you Carver9 just last week enjoying the stellar level feat by human torch (a High Meta) and Captain Marvel trying to drain off excess heat from the core of the Sun in Empyre #6 along with some other heroes to have a dig at Abhi with Superman powering the Sun during this Dark Metal event.
Carry on.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
I could see Surfer one shotting the moon with relative ease like Piccolo did.No one below that in Marvel.
who cares, terrax can one shot a planet and sentry owns him
no one in dbz can fly as fast as surfer, or create black hole, or create mini sun, or has the energy manipulation abilities, or surfs on supernova like surfer, in fact almost all dbz characters would get killed by the sun
is the premise of the thread moon/planet destroying competition or is it who can win in a fight?
when comic characters perform space cheese it's high showing outliers blah blah blah
when dbz characters destroy planets it's the norm, but when goku struggled with 40 tons or gets killed by laser gun it's low showing PIS and totally should be ignored. not the other way around
dragon ball is just one planet destroying wank fest, all dbz fans do is trying to categorize how powerful someone is by how fast and easy they can destroy small and big balls in space
when most characters in fiction has performed way superior complex feats, that doesn't require destroying something in space to show
dbz fans are still stuck at look at this power level! wow look at this blast destroying this big ball in space! wow look how weak this guy is compare to this new villain!
I sat in complete silence as one person argued that Goku with his ultra instinct ability would destroy any Herald to High Trans character from any comic company. His first 2 targets were the Flash and Superman. Since me and several others in game chat were unfamiliar with any DBZ episodes past the Buu saga, many were unable to challenge his claim.
Originally posted by PhilYou should! 👆
I think I'm going to have some fun, in the meanwhile, and go through Dragon Ball just for the sake of it and ask which metas can replicate certain feats. Not for scaling purposes [Piccolo/Raditz do just fine], but just to get some views.
I'd be curious to know how you(and others) would rank a showing like this, for example:
🙂
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXXGiven that the sun is like 99% the mass of our solar system, it would likely take somewhere between Perfect Cell and SPC level power to star-bust(given that the latter can fully wipe out the entire solar system.)
but if spc can wipe out a solar system, then how powerful do you think a character has to be to destroy a star?
...Unless you take 5th form Cooler's line from movie #5 at face value:
But aside from it being in a movie, I'm also pretty sure the line was English-dub only... So not exactly 'canon' any way you slice it.
Originally posted by carver9No.
@Galan...Do you believe someone at King Vegeta power level could truly do something like this?
It's a badass feat, but we canonically know that Saiyan saga Vegeta had the minimum PL required to destroy a planet with a single(maximum effort) attack.
That is an important distinction, because Vegeta had already surpassed his father when he was just a kid:
So there's no way King Vegeta could have casually destroyed multiple planets(and moons) like that... Unless he was an Oozaru first.
Originally posted by Sensui
Well Mandarin's rings were stated to have the power to rip the Moon apart. Cyclops boasts against Juggernaut his blast can destroy small moons, Nate Grey has done so on panel X-man #45.And again there is no "standard" Carver9. Just folks cherry picking the feats they like, feats they don't like. Like you Carver9 just last week enjoying the stellar level feat by human torch (a High Meta) and Captain Marvel trying to drain off excess heat from the core of the Sun in Empyre #6 along with some other heroes to have a dig at Abhi with Superman powering the Sun during this Dark Metal event.
Carry on.
Cyclops can't destroy the moon. Mandarin can't destroy the moon. I did mention Human Torch showing to ABHI. Not as a standard for the character but to show that fts like that means crap. Even though Humam Torch have a ft like that, a moon buster would turn him to dust. Thing would ko him. Hell, Wolverine could punch him out. Why do you keep mentioning high end showings as an average.
Originally posted by MrMind
who cares, terrax can one shot a planet and sentry owns himno one in dbz can fly as fast as surfer, or create black hole, or create mini sun, or has the energy manipulation abilities, or surfs on supernova like surfer, in fact almost all dbz characters would get killed by the sun
is the premise of the thread moon/planet destroying competition or is it who can win in a fight?
Superman can't create Black Holes, create mini suns, or have energy manipulating abilties. Who would win between him and Surfer? Doomsday can't do anything you mentioned here. Can he beat Surfer?
Originally posted by Galan007👆
You should! 👆I'd be curious to know how you(and others) would rank a showing like this, for example:
*imgs*
Hm. Those 30 minutes he mentions -- I assume he means he'll go there, do his thing, then come back in that time? Not just the throw/flight time, no?
Since I uploaded these just now, I'm curious to see which is the weakest meta that replicated this leap:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Tao was saying that he could throw the pillar/himself to the destination(2,300km away), f*ck shit up, then throw the pillar/himself back to the starting point... In 30 minutes, lol.
But even if you just assume it took a full 30 minutes for the initial 2,300km trip, it still means the pillar sustained mach 3.7 the entire time.
That's not a bad throw for an extremely low-level DB villain, lol.