Originally posted by Galan007
Huh?You originally said that no one in DBS has destroyed a planet with a punch/kick. I showed you Champa doing so casually:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=17276737#post17276737Now you're asking for DBS characters who have destroyed entire universes with a punch/kick? Lol, no... That obviously hasn't happened(and I don't think anyone in comics has kicked a universe out of existence either.)
However, it was stated that the shockwaves generated from the [physical] fight between n00b-SSG Goku and Beerus would have destroyed the universe(inc. it's adjacent realms):
https://i.imgur.com/qRq2GkC.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/L3EUwz0.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/kA9JbMM.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/b6Ei4ep.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/t5GcaHm.jpgWhich was reiterated in the manga:
https://i.imgur.com/ZXxJNn6.png
*And that was before they created the "super dense energy ball", which was also capable of destroying the universe.So any way you slice it, the battle between n00b-SSG Goku and Beerus was universal... And Jiren is many, many orders of magnitude beyond the level they were fighting at.
BTW, Who is comparable to Zeno or Grand Priest in DC and Marvel?
I don't think they are comparable to above multiversal tier like World Forger or Beyonders.
Ok, here's an argument that the Dragon Ball side absolutely can not win. And thus my point will be ignored or gaslit.
So here goes:
*Ahem*
Under Vs board rules, active powers are off, while passive powers are on.
Virtually any herald in comics has passive powers. Flash's speed, Supermans durability and strength, Surfers power cosmic all default to on.
Dragon Ball, conversely, defaults to off. They need to power up first, before they can fight.
Therefore, under board rules, even Frank Castle or Bullseye can defeat Goku.
Goku tanked a sniper in Dragon Ball.
The same rules mention that characters fight to the full range and to the best of their base levels at the start of battle. They just can't activate offensive or defensive powers. Like charging up an attack.
The Z Fighters purposefully lower their own power to trick enemies and when they do that they can raise and lower their power in the time it takes to throw one strike. Assuming they start out at their lowest power is like limiting Superman based on how he starts fights. Ultimately doesn't matter considering the speed they've operated at with controlling their power since the beginning, but you're talking about Goku's self imposed limitations that still allow him to ultimately smash people like Recoome nigh-instantly when his power read out around 6 times lower than Recoome. Or how he was raising and lowering his power so fast against Burter and Jeice faster than Krillin, Gohan, or the scouters could tell. More importantly, Vegeta specified he was only raising his power when he attacked and he had no issue dealing with their speed even though he was raising and lowering his power so fast no one could read it. Essentily when his power was 5000 he was capable of raising it far above theirs by reacting to them.
They were even attacking him at the same time for extended periods of time for multiple pages relentlessly and none of the scouters picked up an increase in power.
Not even Carver would take pride in that "factoid" even if you were right. Goku limits himself much like Superman. He's powering down, that's not his base.
Originally posted by cdtm
Ok, here's an argument that the Dragon Ball side absolutely can not win. And thus my point will be ignored or gaslit.So here goes:
*Ahem*
Under Vs board rules, active powers are off, while passive powers are on.
Virtually any herald in comics has passive powers. Flash's speed, Supermans durability and strength, Surfers power cosmic all default to on.
Dragon Ball, conversely, defaults to off. They need to power up first, before they can fight.
Therefore, under board rules, even Frank Castle or Bullseye can defeat Goku.
I thought they start off at their prime per forum rules.
Originally posted by carver9I completely disagree, but that's neither here nor there.
Galan disagrees but Jiren is above Beerus, period.
Originally posted by CatL18It would take a very high-end cosmic being to wipe out universes as casually as Zen-Oh can, tbh.
BTW, Who is comparable to Zeno or Grand Priest in DC and Marvel?
I don't think they are comparable to above multiversal tier like World Forger or Beyonders.
Not saying he's fully multiversal(there are only 12 universes in the DB multiverse, after all), but characters who can nullify entire universes just by literally closing their hand are few and far between... Even in comics.
Originally posted by Philosophía
44 pages in less than week has to be a thread record for the last decade.
You're talking about early Dragon Ball Goku, before his powers were really developed. That's like taking Sabertooth when Danny beat him down and using him now (Are we just gonna ignore Krillin taking a bullet, and Goku a laser?)
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Goku tanked a sniper in Dragon Ball.The same rules mention that characters fight to the full range and to the best of their base levels at the start of battle. They just can't activate offensive or defensive powers. Like charging up an attack.
The Z Fighters purposefully lower their own power to trick enemies and when they do that they can raise and lower their power in the time it takes to throw one strike. Assuming they start out at their lowest power is like limiting Superman based on how he starts fights. Ultimately doesn't matter considering the speed they've operated at with controlling their power since the beginning, but you're talking about Goku's self imposed limitations that still allow him to ultimately smash people like Recoome nigh-instantly when his power read out around 6 times lower than Recoome. Or how he was raising and lowering his power so fast against Burter and Jeice faster than Krillin, Gohan, or the scouters could tell. More importantly, Vegeta specified he was only raising his power when he attacked and he had no issue dealing with their speed even though he was raising and lowering his power so fast no one could read it. Essentily when his power was 5000 he was capable of raising it far above theirs by reacting to them.
They were even attacking him at the same time for extended periods of time for multiple pages relentlessly and none of the scouters picked up an increase in power.
Not even Carver would take pride in that "factoid" even if you were right. Goku limits himself much like Superman. He's powering down, that's not his base.
Overall good post, and I'd love to dig into it. But first things first:
Prep time
Neither side receives any notable prep time before the starting bell unless the thread starter specifies it. Neither side may take any offensive or defensive actions before the starting bell. Planning is allowed and powers that are automatic or 'always on' can be up, but actions such as setting up forcefields, taking flight, or consciously activating powers is not. For example, Batman cannot shove together an 'anti-Avengers ray' before the fight.
Seems pretty clear to me that Goku powering up falls under this category, the same way Sue Richards setting up a force field or going indivisible would.
We usually ignore this fact, I assume, because then there's not much of a fight. But I just want to be sure everyone knows this rule does exist, and see if people have a problem admitting whether or not Goku is boned under this rule.
Lets just say I'm suspicious of the viability any good faith arguments, if this becomes a sticking point.
Not to be a jerk about it. I don't come across as a jerk, do I? 😅
Originally posted by One Big Mob👆
Goku tanked a sniper in Dragon Ball.The same rules mention that characters fight to the full range and to the best of their base levels at the start of battle. They just can't activate offensive or defensive powers. Like charging up an attack.
The Z Fighters purposefully lower their own power to trick enemies and when they do that they can raise and lower their power in the time it takes to throw one strike. Assuming they start out at their lowest power is like limiting Superman based on how he starts fights. Ultimately doesn't matter considering the speed they've operated at with controlling their power since the beginning, but you're talking about Goku's self imposed limitations that still allow him to ultimately smash people like Recoome nigh-instantly when his power read out around 6 times lower than Recoome. Or how he was raising and lowering his power so fast against Burter and Jeice faster than Krillin, Gohan, or the scouters could tell. More importantly, Vegeta specified he was only raising his power when he attacked and he had no issue dealing with their speed even though he was raising and lowering his power so fast no one could read it. Essentily when his power was 5000 he was capable of raising it far above theirs by reacting to them.
They were even attacking him at the same time for extended periods of time for multiple pages relentlessly and none of the scouters picked up an increase in power.
Not even Carver would take pride in that "factoid" even if you were right. Goku limits himself much like Superman. He's powering down, that's not his base.
Even if you assume that the 'full capacity' rule doesn't apply to DB for whatever reason, and that base Goku would start off with a PL of 5 in a forum battle, he can raise his ki as much as he wants(and even jump into higher transformations), nigh-instantly.
So Goku loses to bullets now even though the closest thing we have is Goku powering down enough to punch humans and only getting a small welt from a bullet? Where in there did this discount him not getting shot through as a Kid? How can you claim good faith when you're discounting him taking many bullets and saying the only reason he doesn't lose to Punisher is because of distance? You're so consumed with your hate that you sink to levels far below Carver would ever attempt to, and that's pretty low considering Carver is dirt.
A laser is not a Punisher's laser. There's no correlation.
Keep reading:
Basic Knowledge
Each side receives basic knowledge of the other. A good measure of this would be what the general population of the character's homeworld knows. For example, that Superman has a weakness to Kryptonite is general knowledge, but that he's Clark Kent is not.Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.But as mentioned above: it is still always assumed that a character's base powers are active and working to their optimum efficiency in versus matches, therefore this default battlefield would essentially morph to accommodate the characters' powers when need be.
The only rule this might apply to at all would be Goku, but considering Goku has basic knowledge of the opponent before hand, he doesn't need to purposely lower his power before the fight. And he can raise it instantly anyway while reacting to people way faster than his lowered power level. And could tank a Ginyu cheapshot while Ginyu was pushing 60k and Goku was 5000 at the time.
You come off as a desperate slimeball trying to throw anything you can at Dragon Ball. It's quite pathetic at this point. You're now trying to circumvent the actual powers because you think you found a loophole that does nothing to combat anything said in this thread. Under your logic, Goku losing has zero to do with a limitation on his actual power.
Which doesn't matter to the looming question of the thread you keep having a meltdown with because Raditz doesn't lower his own power.
Originally posted by Galan007
I completely disagree, but that's neither here nor there.It would take a very high-end cosmic being to wipe out universes as casually as Zen-Oh can, tbh.
Not saying he's fully multiversal(there are only 12 universes in the DB multiverse, after all), but characters who can nullify entire universes just by literally closing their hand are few and far between... Even in comics.
