Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
thing is though Bran, it's all very well saying Marvel or DC don't do X well, but the writer's and Editor's have usually worked at both.
Originally posted by One Big Mobfunnily enough most cosmic speed feats just seem silly to me, a bit like awesome strength feats. I would generally much rather read a good street level story for the most part, unless it's like Planet Hulk or something well written.
I understand. That only makes it more questionable though. Like there's some hard line in the sand about copying cool depictions of powers while they rip each other off on everything else. Hell all they have to do is look inward at Spider-Man to see cool shit but nah.
Originally posted by One Big MobGoing through the Universe and hitting something is like flying from one end of the solar system to the other and hitting Epstein by mistake. It's not impossible, but highly unlikely, and if you did, you probably wanted to. There's been some fun calculations made:
I mean flying through a straight line of the galaxy while flying through solar systems; not just one solar system. Although most of space is empty - and I understand how much of a void it is between and even in galaxies - it combined with Star Wars hyperspace lanes gives me doubt that you could just straight line through the galaxy while passing through inhabited systems and not hit anything. I suppose it's more of a question of how many solar systems could you pass all lined up while being safe. I'm assuming passing through a couple. Couple that with all the orbits not lining up perfectly, debris and shit and you have a recipe for disaster for me. If you pass through none then sure.
I feel like there's enough random shit that if you're not mapping out a route before hand then you're bound to hit something.A map of our galaxy would help put it in perspective though. It would either ease my concern, or keep it the same. Mind you this is assuming it's all on the same plane as well, hmm. In any case it's hard for me to believe I could just blast off in any direction in space without knowledge and be safe without visual aid. Too much fiction and just pure unknown has made that a hard pill to swallow.
And you're confusing this with me actually applying it to comics, or just using travel feats. You're not talking to Carver here or someone with an agenda or hidden motive. I'm saying with maneuvering around characters and random reactions that it doesn't make sense that you can make an argument for Spider-Man fighting Surfer. It's a lamentation that this is what it boils down to. I understand that space is also huge too, but these guys are specifically traversing them and taking note of their surroundings. Basically if you step back and look at it from the outside would you need to specifically group these feats into specific designations of speed?
Basically if it wasn't in a Vs section and you only knew of the "capabilities" of these beings without the low showings, would you assume they get blitzed by any character? It speaks to the absurdity that someone who can travel "many times lightspeed" would be considered slow to me. It's just comic writers trying to top each other.
I'm not making a case for or against it as I understand travel speed - or I can just say THOR to show I understand - I'm just pointing out how woefully inept Marvel is at portraying superspeed in fights when they could easily turn it around. If you came from another fiction, seen the best speed feats from Marvel characters, and then saw all the low feats you'd need to go under some heavy reconciliation. Which explains the Vs wiki people who really don't read... well... anything I imagine. Just the idea of wank is enough without understanding how these mediums work.
Anyway, you catch my drift.
I disagree with this specific point about space travelling -- if you give Spideman the ability to fly, I would expect him to be able to most if not all of the travel feats, and easily at that. It's just very, very easy in space. I think Green Lanterns in itself [and your example, of course] are proof of this in spades. I don't want to start going over feats [and neither do you, that's not the point] so I'll avoid the more...contested characters, but generally, that's how I see it. I'm not sure how many of the writers see it as this [Breevort does, that's for sure, iykwim!], but yeah. And it will always be that a character with actual feats of non-travel [take...spiderman, wolverine or quicksilver, or higher] will, when speed gets into play, outsped the "I can fly really fast" types and hard. And I have no problem with that, unless the latter are Gladiator/Northstar-types [i.e. with the non-flying speed] to handle it.
Originally posted by One Big Mob
A map of our galaxy would help put it in perspective though. It would either ease my concern, or keep it the same. Mind you this is assuming it's all on the same plane as well, hmm.
Just take out solar system, it's 80 astronomical units in diameter. The sun is less than a hundreth of an astronomical unit in diameter, and the Earth is less than less than a thousandth the diameter of the Sun.
Just looking at this in terms of a plane (like you suggested) we have to look at this in terms of area.
The area of the solar system is π/4×80² AU.
Sun: π/4×0.01²
Mercury: π/4×(3×10⁻⁵ )²
Venus: π/4×(8×10⁻⁵ )²
Earth: π/4×(9×10⁻⁵ )²
Mars: π/4×(5×10⁻⁵ )²
Jupiter: π/4×(10⁻³ )²
Saturn: π/4×(8×10⁻⁴ )²
Uranus: π/4×(3×10⁻⁴ )²
Neptune: π/4×(3×10⁻⁴ )²
So if we sum up all area of all the celestial bodies in the solar system and divide it by the space of the solar system we end up with:
π/4×(10⁻⁴ + 9×10⁻¹⁰ + 6.4×10⁻⁹ + 8.1×10⁻⁹ + 2.5×10⁻⁹ + 10⁻⁶ + 6.4×10⁻⁷ + 9×10⁻⁸ + 9×10⁻⁸ ) / π/4×6,400
The above expression isn't even two percent larger than the area of the sun, and since we're only working with one significant digit, the expression may as well be simplified as 10⁻⁴/6,400 = 2×10⁻⁸.
In other words your probability of hitting matter traveling through the solar system would be 0.00002%, but that's assuming that the area occupied by matter is evenly distributed across the solar system in discrete parts the same area as the area of the projectile going through the solar system (which it isn't), so the probability is significantly lower than that.
And once you get outside of the solar system you have to contend with the empty space between solar systems, which is significantly larger than the solar systems themselves.
So it's extremely unlikely that you'll hit something if you're traveling in a straight line.
Originally posted by Astner
In other words light-speed?
And Wally outraced it.
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-97bfc8256826ec19d625119f4e45428e
Originally posted by PhilosophíaHate it. And I'll use the copout of them not taking the path of planetary orbits into account. It's obviously different than how comics depict it but still depressing to think of how ****ing alone humanity will always be.
Going through the Universe and hitting something is like flying from one end of the solar system to the other and hitting Epstein by mistake. It's not impossible, but highly unlikely, and if you did, you probably wanted to. There's been some fun calculations made:
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/12/the-chance-of-a-collision-in-outer-space-is-practically-zilch/383810/
or here:
https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/questions/23368/what-is-a-probability-of-a-particle-launched-from-earth-hitting-any-object-in-th
etc. You can find lots of resources on this -- I tried finding something you can zoom out of and stuff, but you'd get bored out of your mind seeing how empty it is. It's really hard to wrap ones head around, but you can literally just go random directions and the chances of hitting something is like pissing in the wind, a bird grabbing that piss in her mouth and taking it directly to carver's soup.Anyway, you catch my drift.
I disagree with this specific point about space travelling -- if you give Spideman the ability to fly, I would expect him to be able to most if not all of the travel feats, and easily at that. It's just very, very easy in space. I think Green Lanterns in itself [and your example, of course] are proof of this in spades. I don't want to start going over feats [and neither do you, that's not the point] so I'll avoid the more...contested characters, but generally, that's how I see it. I'm not sure how many of the writers see it as this [Breevort does, that's for sure, iykwim!], but yeah. And it will always be that a character with actual feats of non-travel [take...spiderman, wolverine or quicksilver, or higher] will, when speed gets into play, outsped the "I can fly really fast" types and hard. And I have no problem with that, unless the latter are Gladiator/Northstar-types [i.e. with the non-flying speed] to handle it.
Of course Spider-Man would be superfast, no contention there. He'd definitely be doing high speed perceptions too. The GL part is also missing the point I feel. They also fall into what I'm saying with Marvel characters, though obviously from a universe that better understands speed. I'm not putting them into the context of comics, I'm just saying that with their travel speed and better speed feats (perceptions, reactions, even movements) it's very odd to think of them being portrayed as slow as they are in battle. The idea that Spider-Man could blitz characters with the type of feats they do just highlights how off the thinking of how speed works in comics. You see this often with people coming here with a good travel feat - that involves some reaction - and them just being thrown by how speed gets portrayed in comics. They're not inherently wrong, but they're not thinking in the way that comics will change your thoughts yet. Pure defeat and questions follow.
As for a GL, the same kind of example follows; lining up all their speed feats do you think a "normal" human should be tearing their rings off?
It's all a suspension of disbelief to me so much so that we have to have multiple separations of speed because writers simply don't know how they want to portray speed.
I'm not arguing against that or saying things don't count; I'm just ranting about the absurdity of it all. Even if Surfer started punching at lightspeed, he'd still get blitzed by Spider-Man in a comic. It's a case of if that makes sense following other things, not a case of whether it would or has happened.
As for writers. Could be a case of them not understanding the implications, could be a case of them forgetting what they wrote. In either case they don't care enough to follow through with hyperbole and implications.
Originally posted by abhilegend
No, it's sixty trillion lightyears within half a second.And Wally outraced it.
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-97bfc8256826ec19d625119f4e45428e
Originally posted by One Big MobTo answer the questions, I have some very specific feats from some GLs that are, if you look on them as not simple "he flies fast and does this", as theoretically above human speed feats -- but then again, so does Batman himself [without any GL ring]. If you look at stuff hard enough, you can find anything. How do I look at this? I look at the general portrayal, instead of -- not necessarily autistically, but certainly ignoring common sense types of finding feats of speed where it was not really intended to. As in, if a human GL flies in space and travels all over the Universe with casual ease, and then dead-stops when he finds Sinestro, I don't see that as "holy shit, Guy Gardner speedblitzes Bart Allen". And while this approach doesn't work when talking to people in here, or if I were, on other forums in general [no approach ever works in talking to anyone, really. such is humanity], I find it the most common sense one. On the other hand, if a character were to superspeed punch people at lightspeed in a fraction of a second [as in your example], that is a clear example of what I find as clear-cut example of portraying actual combat speed where you don't have to go olympic gymnast to make it clear. I don't think Spiderman would ever be portrayed as speedblitzing Jay Garrick, but the reverse [and there's examples]. I do think Hulk [I'm trying to make this as unconTHoroverSSial as possible, you see] will forever be portrayed as getting speedblitzed by Spiderman. And has been. And talking about "but, well, you see, here is hammer guy batting away a blaster blast of blastering blast blast" will never superseed this, because it's simply contortionism. I think writers see "fliers" and "speedsters" or "very fast in combat a.k.a. spiderman" pretty clearly and portray it as such, but since we spend dozens of hours going over what the writer meant when he spent 10 minutes writing those two panels of fast flier guy travelling really fast, or "oh my, a microsecond for me to wipe my ass clean" statements, we tend to not see that very blatant thing. But...I also think many of us do, lol, and I'm certain you know what I'm talking about. Anyway, I hope this blabbering is a satisfactory answer.
Hate it. And I'll use the copout of them not taking the path of planetary orbits into account. It's obviously different than how comics depict it but still depressing to think of how ****ing alone humanity will always be.Of course Spider-Man would be superfast, no contention there. He'd definitely be doing high speed perceptions too. The GL part is also missing the point I feel. They also fall into what I'm saying with Marvel characters, though obviously from a universe that better understands speed. I'm not putting them into the context of comics, I'm just saying that with their travel speed and better speed feats (perceptions, reactions, even movements) it's very odd to think of them being portrayed as slow as they are in battle. The idea that Spider-Man could blitz characters with the type of feats they do just highlights how off the thinking of how speed works in comics. You see this often with people coming here with a good travel feat - that involves some reaction - and them just being thrown by how speed gets portrayed in comics. They're not inherently wrong, but they're not thinking in the way that comics will change your thoughts yet. Pure defeat and questions follow.
As for a GL, the same kind of example follows; lining up all their speed feats do you think a "normal" human should be tearing their rings off?
It's all a suspension of disbelief to me so much so that we have to have multiple separations of speed because writers simply don't know how they want to portray speed.
I'm not arguing against that or saying things don't count; I'm just ranting about the absurdity of it all. Even if Surfer started punching at lightspeed, he'd still get blitzed by Spider-Man in a comic. It's a case of if that makes sense following other things, not a case of whether it would or has happened.
As for writers. Could be a case of them not understanding the implications, could be a case of them forgetting what they wrote. In either case they don't care enough to follow through with hyperbole and implications.
We're moving away quite a bit from "which guy can fly really fast in to that point while the other really fast flying guys do the same". Evidently, it's Blue Marvel. This was his thread to shine.
I enjoy blabbering if you haven't noticed, but fair enough. Although I'd much rather talk about the nature of comics than who can beat off who faster. 👆
I'm not disagreeing with how it works in comics, it's just gay how it works in comics is all. In Spider-Man's case it's survival but it's so consistent that he just does it, no questions asked. That brings me to another thorn in my ass hole having low tier beings fight higher ones but I digress.
Although I fully understand how comics have to work I still find myself finding some things just zopzop tier flamboyant. As such I can't even find impressiveness in travel feats (outside very few like Gladiator's), but once they start combining it with more than pure travel it's gay how they will still portray them as pitiful in combat.
I think it's just inconsistency that drives my autism up to CDTM heights mostly.
Is Blue Marvel even still around? Last I saw him was when Ewing overreached. Hopefully Gladiator beats the shit out of him like everyone else soon.
this feat is pretty good for surfer, halfway across galaxy in seconds, and he was finding another world for galactus to drain, so he was not going through straight line, he was searching while flying.
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/7/71/Wl7489L.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160131041940
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/7/73/Srhgf45d.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160131042020
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/9/9e/Wenfght456.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160131042102
Originally posted by One Big MobI will PM you something.
I enjoy blabbering if you haven't noticed, but fair enough. Although I'd much rather talk about the nature of comics than who can beat off who faster. 👆I'm not disagreeing with how it works in comics, it's just gay how it works in comics is all. In Spider-Man's case it's survival but it's so consistent that he just does it, no questions asked. That brings me to another thorn in my ass hole having low tier beings fight higher ones but I digress.
Although I fully understand how comics have to work I still find myself finding some things just zopzop tier flamboyant. As such I can't even find impressiveness in travel feats (outside very few like Gladiator's), but once they start combining it with more than pure travel it's gay how they will still portray them as pitiful in combat.
I think it's just inconsistency that drives my autism up to CDTM heights mostly.
Is Blue Marvel even still around? Last I saw him was when Ewing overreached. Hopefully Gladiator beats the shit out of him like everyone else soon.
Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Mjolnir has already outraced Surfer and gone to the end of the u iverse and back in under. 60 secStraight A-B
Mjolnir
Surfer/Glads
Sentry
Hype/Blue MarvelCombat
Sentry/Glads/Jane Thor w/blitzing Mjolnir
Hype/Marvel
Surfer/Thor
Prove that Mjolnir gone to the end of the universe and back in 60 seconds.
Edit: I see the correction. Nvm
