Shazam/Aquaman/Wonder Woman vs. MCU Hulk/Worthy Cap/Thor

Originally posted by Psychotron
She got hurt when she was heavily depowered yeah, but it was not lethal. Even she looked surprised. She got shot point blank in the White House fight.

Except we've never seen Thor defeat those characters with his lightning cloak. We've never seen the lightning cloak affect someone who can absorb the lightning of a god slayer like Ares, while we have seen Diana injure Doomsday with her sword. We know she's much faster than anyone on team Marvel by feats and we know her sword can cut anyone on the Marvel team thanks to DD feats. So yes, if she uses her speed and sword against Hulk for example, there's not much her can do to avoid getting beheaded.

And don't think that I haven't noticed that you and Darth Thor are avoiding the friendly fire aspect of the cloak. It's out of character for Thor to use his lightning cloak when there are allies around him and you know you cannot refute this.

Your friendly fire angle is easy enough to debunk but I'm ignoring it for now so we can focus on the double standard of your argument.

WW's sword has been shown to injure Doomaday. Check.
Thor's lightning has been shown knock around Thanos and Hela, injure Malekith, one-shot leviathans, destroy the bifrost and a whole lot more.

Thor’s lightning has way more feats than Diana's sword.

But for some reason you want to ignore all that and require SPECIFIC feats of Thor's lightning cloak defeating more than just fodder. Fine.

Using that logic, we also want SPECIFIC feats of WW using her superspeed to one-shot speed blitz any character that isn't a mook.

All I'm doing here is applying the same standard on both characters.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Your friendly fire angle is easy enough to debunk but I'm ignoring it for now so we can focus on the double standard of your argument.

WW's sword has been shown to injure Doomaday. Check.
Thor's lightning has been shown knock around Thanos and Hela, injure Malekith, one-shot leviathans, destroy the bifrost and a whole lot more.

Thor’s lightning has way more feats than Diana's sword.

But for some reason you want to ignore all that and require SPECIFIC feats of Thor's lightning cloak defeating more than just fodder. Fine.

Using that logic, we also want SPECIFIC feats of WW using her superspeed to one-shot speed blitz any character that isn't a mook.

All I'm doing here is applying the same standard on both characters.

Yeah, go ahead. I'd love to see how this will work even though Thor NEVER does it in the movies. In fact, wasn't the prime forum justification for Thor getting destroyed by Thanos in IW that he couldn't use his lightning cloak on the ship because of the other Asgardians, Loki and Hulk being close to him?

All of those are inferior to injuring Doomsday. Thanos and Hela weren't really hurt, so no, Thor's lightning does not have better feats than Diana's sword against high level opponents. We all know what would happen if Ragnarok Thor fights Doomsday without the Stormbreaker.

No, I want feats proving that Thor's lightning cloak is as powerful as his charged lightning attacks and that it can hurt someone who has been explicitly shown to be able to absorb/redirect lighting and an immunity to electric attacks in mutliple movies.

A specific feat for using super speed to swing a sword? Now you're just trolling. But either way, she cut Doomsday's arm off, so what's to stop her from doing the same to anyone on the Marvel team? None of them are fast enough to dodge her attacks. If you have feats for the Marvel team, which prove they're fast enough to keep pace with someone who is a legit bullet timer even when heavily depowered, please provide them.

Lol at this lightning cloak argument again.

Originally posted by 9jaboy
Cap survived getting punched by Thanos.
Loki was choked by Thanos with one hand while smiling.
Cap survived fighting Ironman and even took his blast.
Loki couldn't handle a single blast from Ironman.
In the big boys fight Loki is Fodder.

This is the most ridiculous stupid shit which isnt even worth responding to.

Youre clearly not a serious debater.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
This is the most ridiculous stupid shit which isnt even worth responding to.

Youre clearly not a serious debater.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
This is the most ridiculous stupid shit which isnt even worth responding to.

Youre clearly not a serious debater.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Yeah, go ahead. I'd love to see how this will work even though Thor NEVER does it in the movies. In fact, wasn't the prime forum justification for Thor getting destroyed by Thanos in IW that he couldn't use his lightning cloak on the ship because of the other Asgardians, Loki and Hulk being close to him?

All of those are inferior to injuring Doomsday. Thanos and Hela weren't really hurt, so no, Thor's lightning does not have better feats than Diana's sword against high level opponents. We all know what would happen if Ragnarok Thor fights Doomsday without the Stormbreaker.

No, I want feats proving that Thor's lightning cloak is as powerful as his charged lightning attacks and that it can hurt someone who has been explicitly shown to be able to absorb/redirect lighting and an immunity to electric attacks in mutliple movies.

A specific feat for using super speed to swing a sword? Now you're just trolling. But either way, she cut Doomsday's arm off, so what's to stop her from doing the same to anyone on the Marvel team? None of them are fast enough to dodge her attacks. If you have feats for the Marvel team, which prove they're fast enough to keep pace with someone who is a legit bullet timer even when heavily depowered, please provide them.

And again, as soon as we address the double standard you're pulling then I will address that friendly fire angle which is easily debunkable, even that opening fight in IW.

But the fact of the matter is, if you want specific feats of Thor using his lightning cloak against high end opponents, then you should apply the same standard to yourself and provide specific feats of Diana speedblitzing a high end opponent with her sword. And if you're not honest enough to approach this debate with fair arguments then it's pointless to address any other argument you make.

For example: What do you mean none of the the MCU team are fast enough to dodge her attacks? Luddendorf and Steppenwolf had zero issues blocking and avoiding a good chunk of her attacks. And Luddendorf wasn't even armed.

Besides, I never claimed that Thor's lightning cloak would somehow one-shot WW. Just knock her off her feet like his lightning did to Hela or Thanos or Hulk. Considering that we have feats of Thor's lightning doing exactly what I said it's going to do, you're the one who needs to step up his game because we have zero feats of Diana actually speedblitz cutting through any high end opponent. Even when she cut off Doomsday's hand (which she didn't do in superspeed), she only managed to do it because DD was unarmed and was attacking her with his fists. All of her opponents here are armed.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Why aren't you calling Froth out on his stance, when even he indirectly acknowledges it's retarded?

Stop trolling dude. Why would I argue a stance I think was retarded?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Stop trolling dude. Why would I argue a stance I think was retarded?

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
For the same reason you backpedal on it and then bring it up again. Lol.

Show me where I backpedalled on something.

Originally posted by 9jaboy
Everything I said happened.
Your bias can't let you see that Loki is Fodder.
Lemme ask you one simple Yes or No question.
Was Loki portrayed as fodder to Hulk?

Either you are completely dense to interpret those fights in that way, or you are trolling.

Im inclined to think the latter but either way you dont seem worth my time.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Show me where I backpedalled on something.

And now you're bringing up the same point you were ashamed to accept because of how phucking dumb it was?

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
When called out you said you didn't claim lightning cloak scaled off of Thor's high end lightning attacks, in spite of the fact that I cited the specific post in which you blatantly did so lol.

And now you're bringing up the same point you were ashamed to accept because of how phucking dumb it was?

You're misquoting me. What I said was that I didn't expect Thor's lightning cloak to be equal to his strongest lightning attacks, but that he had the potential to make them stronger to equal some of his stronger lightning attacks.

So what you're claiming to be me being "ashamed of accepting" something is merely you being unable (or unwilling) to understand what I said.

And in the end, all you really did in our previous argument was criticize and criticize but never actually came up with proof of your own to support your arguments.

I bet that's exactly what you're going to do here again. Now watch as all you do is criticize my argument without actually providing any proof to back yourself up.

Seems like thats what hes doing tbh.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Seems like thats what hes doing tbh.

That's why I stopped responding to him in the other thread. It was just page after page of me providing proof of Thor's cloak working and Superman getting staggered by energy attacks, and Grimes trying to poke holes through my argument.

Yet not even once was Grimes able to provide proof of Superman actually being able to shrug off an energy attack like he claimed.

So yeah, didn't look like that conversation was going anywhere. Guess it's easy to criticize someone else's argument but far harder to back up your own.

Looks like this thread is heading the same direction with people asking for proof of Thor's lightning working on someone as strong as Diana yet no-one willing to provide proof of Diana speedblitzing anyone above mook level.

Originally posted by FrothByte
That's why I stopped responding to him in the other thread. It was just page after page of me providing proof of Thor's cloak working and Superman getting staggered by energy attacks, and Grimes trying to poke holes through my argument.

Yet not even once was Grimes able to provide proof of Superman actually being able to shrug off an energy attack like he claimed.

So yeah, didn't look like that conversation was going anywhere. Guess it's easy to criticize someone else's argument but far harder to back up your own.

Looks like this thread is heading the same direction with people asking for proof of Thor's lightning working on someone as strong as Diana yet no-one willing to provide proof of Diana speedblitzing anyone above mook level.

It's weird. If you point out to people that for all her actually rather impressive speed, Diana has only ever used it to block/dodge bullets and against random goons, they take it like you're talking down on her. But the thing is other heroes within that universe actually use their speed in fights.

Both Flash and Superman make liberal use of their extreme speed, and in JL they were both so fast Diana was standing still. Steppenwolf, Ludendorf, Doomsday, Ares, and even Cheetah(who showed no real enhanced speed) were able to hit her just fine. If I recall she has 1 combat speed feat against Ares. He blows her up or hits her or something and she zooms up and socks him in the face before he realizes it.

Originally posted by tkitna
Loki was not near death. Worse for wear, sure, but he was moving and talking fine.

Hulk didnt punch him, but he knocked him into a concrete wall that didnt do anything to him.

No, Loki isnt up there with the big boys, but he's not that far off.

Then you need to rewatch it. He wasn't able to move or talk after the concrete smash 😂 Loki was nearly gone.

It certainly did. Imagine comparing someone like that to Thor , or saying he's close to hulk level. That's just laughable.

Thor must have been holding back immensely.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Either you are completely dense to interpret those fights in that way, or you are trolling.

Im inclined to think the latter but either way you dont seem worth my time.

Ah well you're allowed to compliment yourself every now and then.

Damn, forgot all about this thread.

Team Marvel FTW.

Originally posted by FrothByte
And again, as soon as we address the double standard you're pulling then I will address that friendly fire angle which is easily debunkable, even that opening fight in IW.

But the fact of the matter is, if you want specific feats of Thor using his lightning cloak against high end opponents, then you should apply the same standard to yourself and provide specific feats of Diana speedblitzing a high end opponent with her sword. And if you're not honest enough to approach this debate with fair arguments then it's pointless to address any other argument you make.

For example: What do you mean none of the the MCU team are fast enough to dodge her attacks? Luddendorf and Steppenwolf had zero issues blocking and avoiding a good chunk of her attacks. And Luddendorf wasn't even armed.

Besides, I never claimed that Thor's lightning cloak would somehow one-shot WW. Just knock her off her feet like his lightning did to Hela or Thanos or Hulk. Considering that we have feats of Thor's lightning doing exactly what I said it's going to do, you're the one who needs to step up his game because we have zero feats of Diana actually speedblitz cutting through any high end opponent. Even when she cut off Doomsday's hand (which she didn't do in superspeed), she only managed to do it because DD was unarmed and was attacking her with his fists. All of her opponents here are armed.

There is no double standard. We've seen Wonder Woman hurt a high level opponent with her sword. We know she is considerably faster than anyone on the Marvel team. 2+2=?

Fair arguments? What's fair about ignoring Wonder Woman's massive speed advantage? What's fair about ignoring her resistance to lightning?

Then Steppenwolf and Luddendorf are fast enough to do so by feats. That's how scaling works. Wonder Woman has blitzed normal humans in multiple movies. We know she can do it. Ergo, Steppenwolf and Luddendorf are faster than normal humans. 2+2 again. If Thor and Hulk had the feats to suggest they could react to someone that fast you'd have an argument, but they don't have the feats and so you don't have an argument either.

Thor never knocked down Thanos or Hela with his lightning cloak. You do realize that Thor's lightning attacks aren't all the same, right? The size and power can vary to a huge degree. If you want to claim that Thor's lightning cloak hits as hard as his most powerful charged lightning attacks then prove it.

And I'm going to say this again, because no matter how hard you try to ignore this point THOR HAS NEVER USED HIS LIGHTNING CLOAK WHEN FIGHTING ALONGSIDE HIS ALLIES. Last time I checked CIS isn't off in this battle.