Originally posted by Silent MasterSo even though they committed acts terrorism you find yourself able to justify those acts.
No, because it was the British that started the violence with the Boston Massacre in 1770. If the BLM/Antifa or these current riots were in response to the government sending in the military and massacring civilians. I wouldn't have a problems with these riots either.
Originally posted by ScribbleThere are some fair points here. People both on the left and the right have been content to set fires and let them rage out of control because it suits their political bent, without much thought for the consequences.
David Dorn was a retired police officer killed in the riots spared by the protests: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/03/us/david-dorn-st-louis-police-shot-trnd/index.htmlNot to mention the many videos that came out of it, there was one of an old guy trying to defend his little shop from looters and they broke his nose and left him on the pavement, for example. Lots of small businesses were burned down and people lost their livelihoods.
CHOP also sprang from the summer protests, and violent crimes such as assault, robbery and rape skyrocketed not only within CHOP but also around the area as police wouldn't go near it. A 16-year-old boy was shot to death within CHOP 'territory' and ambulances couldn't get inside to save his life.
Honestly the footage I was seeing was incredible, in the worst way. From over the pond, it looked like the whole of America was on fire.
And all the while, Democrats cheered it on, and everyone on the left constantly sympathised and apologised for the acts of devastation and terror that unfolded. Some politicians endorsed what was happening. And now that is also happening on the right. They're using the same tactics that they saw their opponents using last summer (which is a legit thing that happens, it's well documented iirc). They were engendered in part by the response to the violence that they saw (as well as by Trump's repeated refusal to crack down on extreme rhetoric).
Honestly my only real opinion on it all now (i.e. the summer riots and the DC riot) is that America is losing its shit and teetering closer to some kind of civil war. Before, the violence was in the suburbs and city centres. Now it's on the steps of the capital.
Personally I think the line of argument "what if they were black people" doesn't hold much water, because the summer 2020 riots went on for ages and there were no massacres (remember Kent State, 1970?). Ultimately I do think these two occurrences are comparable, especially when seen by someone outside the US political dichotomy, in fact the Capitol riot is more or less a continuation of the conflict of 2020.
Do I sympathise with the peaceful protestors of BLM? Yes. I don't agree with a lot of what they say, and I think a lot of their rhetoric relies on bad statistics, confirmation bias and conspiracy theory. But they were sold that information by irresponsible parties (far-left agitators and corrupt media), and were made to feel scared, victimised and in danger. (I agree with a lot of the baseline stuff tho, tbh, especially critiques of police brutality, and protests for George Floyd were 100% warranted, those cops are scum [all cops are scum, sorry, that's just my opinion at this point after what I've seen in both the UK and US].)
Do I sympathise with the peaceful protestors of outside DC, the ones who didn't try storming the Capitol? Yes. I don't agree with a lot of what they say, and I think a lot of their rhetoric relies on bad statistics, confirmation bias and conspiracy theory. But they were sold that information by irresponsible parties (alt-right agitators and corrupt media), and were made to feel scared, victimised and in danger. (I understand their perspective, a lot of the election stuff could have been iffy based on the info that came out at first, but obviously it turned out as a Nothing Burger.)
I would say to those firmly on the left to remember that your opponents are mostly just ordinary people. These are people who think that their democracy is being stolen from them, and they're scared. You can think them stupid all you like; that's fair enough. A lot of people are stupid (I'm stupid). But most of them are not Nazis, fascists, white supremacists, etc., even if you want them to be. The violent ones are an extreme minority, just as the violent Antifa types are the extreme minority on the left. Stop defining each other by the worst of you. Try seeing the good, and if not the good, then at least the human.
You guys need to start sorting your shit out, and stop engaging in further aggressive and divisive tactics, or else your country, and your democracy, is going to fall. Every democracy falls eventually. Do you want to live through that fall?
Anyway, that's my part. I know I'll be ignored or mocked for the most part, most of you hate my guts, but whatever, take from this what you will. I just wanted to get my thoughts out in a more coherent way instead of engaging in any petty nonsense. Okay I'm bored of typing now byeeee
LONG POST IS LONG.
What we saw today was a serious escalation however, and practically endorsed by a sitting President. To have the United States Capitol under siege by a violent mob and yet not deploy the National Guard immediately... it's baffling.
Personally I'm hoping that the sleepy Joe presidency will calm everyone the f*ck down, and that this atrocious year will ensure Trump never gets elected into power ever again.
Originally posted by Silent MasterSo the British Army was marching city to city killing their own citizens?
No, the Americans didn't feel like they were being massacred by the British military, they actually were massacred.If the recent riots were in response to US citizens being massacred by the military. I'd be calling them self-defense, rather than terrorism.
Originally posted by Scribble
David Dorn was a retired police officer killed in the riots spared by the protests: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/03/us/david-dorn-st-louis-police-shot-trnd/index.htmlNot to mention the many videos that came out of it, there was one of an old guy trying to defend his little shop from looters and they broke his nose and left him on the pavement, for example. Lots of small businesses were burned down and people lost their livelihoods.
CHOP also sprang from the summer protests, and violent crimes such as assault, robbery and rape skyrocketed not only within CHOP but also around the area as police wouldn't go near it. A 16-year-old boy was shot to death within CHOP 'territory' and ambulances couldn't get inside to save his life.
Honestly the footage I was seeing was incredible, in the worst way. From over the pond, it looked like the whole of America was on fire.
And all the while, Democrats cheered it on, and everyone on the left constantly sympathised and apologised for the acts of devastation and terror that unfolded. Some politicians endorsed what was happening. And now that is also happening on the right. They're using the same tactics that they saw their opponents using last summer (which is a legit thing that happens, it's well documented iirc). They were engendered in part by the response to the violence that they saw (as well as by Trump's repeated refusal to crack down on extreme rhetoric).
Honestly my only real opinion on it all now (i.e. the summer riots and the DC riot) is that America is losing its shit and teetering closer to some kind of civil war. Before, the violence was in the suburbs and city centres. Now it's on the steps of the capital.
Personally I think the line of argument "what if they were black people" doesn't hold much water, because the summer 2020 riots went on for ages and there were no massacres (remember Kent State, 1970?). Ultimately I do think these two occurrences are comparable, especially when seen by someone outside the US political dichotomy, in fact the Capitol riot is more or less a continuation of the conflict of 2020.
Do I sympathise with the peaceful protestors of BLM? Yes. I don't agree with a lot of what they say, and I think a lot of their rhetoric relies on bad statistics, confirmation bias and conspiracy theory. But they were sold that information by irresponsible parties (far-left agitators and corrupt media), and were made to feel scared, victimised and in danger. (I agree with a lot of the baseline stuff tho, tbh, especially critiques of police brutality, and protests for George Floyd were 100% warranted, those cops are scum [all cops are scum, sorry, that's just my opinion at this point after what I've seen in both the UK and US].)
Do I sympathise with the peaceful protestors of outside DC, the ones who didn't try storming the Capitol? Yes. I don't agree with a lot of what they say, and I think a lot of their rhetoric relies on bad statistics, confirmation bias and conspiracy theory. But they were sold that information by irresponsible parties (alt-right agitators and corrupt media), and were made to feel scared, victimised and in danger. (I understand their perspective, a lot of the election stuff could have been iffy based on the info that came out at first, but obviously it turned out as a Nothing Burger.)
I would say to those firmly on the left to remember that your opponents are mostly just ordinary people. These are people who think that their democracy is being stolen from them, and they're scared. You can think them stupid all you like; that's fair enough. A lot of people are stupid (I'm stupid). But most of them are not Nazis, fascists, white supremacists, etc., even if you want them to be. The violent ones are an extreme minority, just as the violent Antifa types are the extreme minority on the left. Stop defining each other by the worst of you. Try seeing the good, and if not the good, then at least the human.
You guys need to start sorting your shit out, and stop engaging in further aggressive and divisive tactics, or else your country, and your democracy, is going to fall. Every democracy falls eventually. Do you want to live through that fall?
Anyway, that's my part. I know I'll be ignored or mocked for the most part, most of you hate my guts, but whatever, take from this what you will. I just wanted to get my thoughts out in a more coherent way instead of engaging in any petty nonsense. Okay I'm bored of typing now byeeee
LONG POST IS LONG.
Agreed.
Originally posted by Scribblegood post, still dr;tl sorry 😂
David Dorn was a retired police officer killed in the riots spared by the protests: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/03/us/david-dorn-st-louis-police-shot-trnd/index.htmlNot to mention the many videos that came out of it, there was one of an old guy trying to defend his little shop from looters and they broke his nose and left him on the pavement, for example. Lots of small businesses were burned down and people lost their livelihoods.
CHOP also sprang from the summer protests, and violent crimes such as assault, robbery and rape skyrocketed not only within CHOP but also around the area as police wouldn't go near it. A 16-year-old boy was shot to death within CHOP 'territory' and ambulances couldn't get inside to save his life.
Honestly the footage I was seeing was incredible, in the worst way. From over the pond, it looked like the whole of America was on fire.
And all the while, Democrats cheered it on, and everyone on the left constantly sympathised and apologised for the acts of devastation and terror that unfolded. Some politicians endorsed what was happening. And now that is also happening on the right. They're using the same tactics that they saw their opponents using last summer (which is a legit thing that happens, it's well documented iirc). They were engendered in part by the response to the violence that they saw (as well as by Trump's repeated refusal to crack down on extreme rhetoric).
Honestly my only real opinion on it all now (i.e. the summer riots and the DC riot) is that America is losing its shit and teetering closer to some kind of civil war. Before, the violence was in the suburbs and city centres. Now it's on the steps of the capital.
Personally I think the line of argument "what if they were black people" doesn't hold much water, because the summer 2020 riots went on for ages and there were no massacres (remember Kent State, 1970?). Ultimately I do think these two occurrences are comparable, especially when seen by someone outside the US political dichotomy, in fact the Capitol riot is more or less a continuation of the conflict of 2020.
Do I sympathise with the peaceful protestors of BLM? Yes. I don't agree with a lot of what they say, and I think a lot of their rhetoric relies on bad statistics, confirmation bias and conspiracy theory. But they were sold that information by irresponsible parties (far-left agitators and corrupt media), and were made to feel scared, victimised and in danger. (I agree with a lot of the baseline stuff tho, tbh, especially critiques of police brutality, and protests for George Floyd were 100% warranted, those cops are scum [all cops are scum, sorry, that's just my opinion at this point after what I've seen in both the UK and US].)
Do I sympathise with the peaceful protestors of outside DC, the ones who didn't try storming the Capitol? Yes. I don't agree with a lot of what they say, and I think a lot of their rhetoric relies on bad statistics, confirmation bias and conspiracy theory. But they were sold that information by irresponsible parties (alt-right agitators and corrupt media), and were made to feel scared, victimised and in danger. (I understand their perspective, a lot of the election stuff could have been iffy based on the info that came out at first, but obviously it turned out as a Nothing Burger.)
I would say to those firmly on the left to remember that your opponents are mostly just ordinary people. These are people who think that their democracy is being stolen from them, and they're scared. You can think them stupid all you like; that's fair enough. A lot of people are stupid (I'm stupid). But most of them are not Nazis, fascists, white supremacists, etc., even if you want them to be. The violent ones are an extreme minority, just as the violent Antifa types are the extreme minority on the left. Stop defining each other by the worst of you. Try seeing the good, and if not the good, then at least the human.
You guys need to start sorting your shit out, and stop engaging in further aggressive and divisive tactics, or else your country, and your democracy, is going to fall. Every democracy falls eventually. Do you want to live through that fall?
Anyway, that's my part. I know I'll be ignored or mocked for the most part, most of you hate my guts, but whatever, take from this what you will. I just wanted to get my thoughts out in a more coherent way instead of engaging in any petty nonsense. Okay I'm bored of typing now byeeee
LONG POST IS LONG.
Originally posted by jaden_2.0
That wasn't what I asked.Obviously the reasons are different. They are entirely different issues.
I'm asking whether you think one has more legitimacy than the other.
I don't think either had a legitimate reason to engage in terrorist activity, do you think one group had a legitimate reason to engage in terrorism and if so, which side?
Originally posted by Insane Titan
yeah that is true. Though people will try and say BLM protests are peaceful. Tell that to the people who was killed and countless people who had the crap beaten out of them for no reason and their living destroyed.
You sound like someone who has never been treated like a second class citizen all your life. Protests over George Floyd's blatant murder wasn't just one thing, it was the straw that finally broke the back of decades of police brutality incidents (and coming so soon after Breonna Taylor) that caused the avalanche of protests in the US and around the world. It was similar to the shocking murder of Emmett Till, which supercharged the civil rights movement in the 1950's.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Till
Terrorism in Northern Ireland escalated after the massacre by British soldiers on Bloody Sunday.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)
You and I can say we don't like or agree with Terrorism, but we both likely have never been pushed into a corner by a hostile force so much that we seem to have no other choice.
While I wish the BLM protestors didn't wreck so many properties, I empathize with their feelings of helplessness and how nothing they do in their regular lives seems to change systemic racism.
Originally posted by roughrider
You sound like someone who has never been treated like a second class citizen all your life. Protests over George Floyd's blatant murder wasn't just one thing, it was the straw that finally broke the back of decades of police brutality incidents (and coming so soon after Breonna Taylor) that caused the avalanche of protests in the US and around the world. It was similar to the shocking murder of Emmett Till, which supercharged the civil rights movement in the 1950's.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Till
Terrorism in Northern Ireland escalated after the massacre by British soldiers on Bloody Sunday.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)
You and I can say we don't like or agree with Terrorism, but we both likely have never been pushed into a corner by a hostile force so much that we seem to have no other choice.
While I wish the BLM protestors didn't wreck so many properties, I empathize with their feelings of helplessness and how nothing they do in their regular lives seems to change systemic racism.
That's because smoking crack and cashing your welfare doesn't change anything
Ho ho.
Originally posted by jaden_2.0
Still not what I'm asking.I guess you just don't want to answer.
If you're asking which side I had more sympathy for, the answer is those calling for police reform. but that sympathy went out the window once they resorted to terrorism.
Do you have sympathy for one of the groups of terrorists?