Thragg & Invincible Vs Hercules & Namor

Absolute nonsense.

Omni-Man outlier in a crossover comic, where Supreme is being dumbed down for Omni-Man to have some success, does not negate all of his limitations from the Invincible series.

Also LOL @ calling Supreme in that fight the most powerful and most bloodlusted Supreme. During Supremes fight against Gladiator, Supreme was willing to destroy planets and kill innocents to take down Gladiator. That's actual bloodlust. They were still evenly matched and Gladiator knew that the fight could go on for years.
Does anyone here think that Omni-Man can withstand a planet shattering onslaught for years? LOL!

The fact still remains: Viltrumites die upon colliding with planets, burn as soon as they even touch the sky and need days up to months to regenerate lethal damage.

Hercules = high herald in the strength and durability department / mid herald overall.
Thragg and Invincible = low heralds at the very best.

I'm not saying that low heralds can't beat one-dimensional high heralds, but given how one-dimensional Viltrumites are as well and how big the difference in strength and durability is between those characters... Yeah, they aren't beating Hercules. Period.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Absolute nonsense.

Omni-Man outlier in a crossover comic, where Supreme is being dumbed down for Omni-Man to have some success, does not negate all of his limitations from the Invincible series.

Also LOL @ calling Supreme in that fight the most powerful and most bloodlusted Supreme. During Supremes fight against Gladiator, Supreme was willing to destroy planets and kill innocents to take down Gladiator. That's actual bloodlust. They were still evenly matched and Gladiator knew that the fight could go on for years.
Does anyone here think that Omni-Man can withstand a planet shattering onslaught for years? LOL!

The fact still remains: Viltrumites die upon colliding with planets, burn as soon as they even touch the sky and need days up to months to regenerate lethal damage.

Hercules = high herald in the strength and durability department / mid herald overall.
Thragg and Invincible = low heralds at the very best.

I'm not saying that low heralds can't beat one-dimensional high heralds, but given how one-dimensional Viltrumites are as well and how big the difference in strength and durability is between those characters... Yeah, they aren't beating Hercules. Period.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!

As the Supreme fight shows, it depends on the writer and always will.

Indeed it does, but by that logic Spider-Man can beat heralds, because he once defeated Firelord.

Could Thragg and Invincible defeat Hercules? If the writer wants it, yes.
Could Thragg and Invincible defeat Hercules, after we take a look at where their strength and durability starts maxing out? No, because where they start maxing out, Hercules keeps on going.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Indeed it does, but by that logic Spider-Man can beat heralds, because he once defeated Firelord.

Could Thragg and Invincible defeat Hercules? If the writer wants it, yes.
Could Thragg and Invincible defeat Hercules, after we take a look at where their strength and durability starts maxing out? No, because where they start maxing out, Hercules keeps on going.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!

Except that one time when Thragg didn't max out. A bit like Sentry's beating Molecule Man, am I right?

When didn't Thragg max out? I was referring to him starting to burn and die as soon as Invincible dragged them into the sun. Invincible would have died as well, if he didn't get the protective armor, which gave him a couple of extra seconds.
In the Marvel and the DC universe high heralds usually handle the heat of the sun well in general. (I write in general, because the sun is sometimes used as the ultimate nullifier for anything that needs dying, no matter its power level.)

What about Sentry beating Molecule Man? Molecule Man didn't max out there. He still returned a while after being demolished by the Sentry. Sentry also went on to continue gathering feats, which further established him as a dangerous power house.

I don't understand why people are so defensive about Invincible characters. It was an enjoyable series. But the characters were clearly not on the level of mid to high heralds and sure as hell nowhere close to levels above high heralds.

Enzeru quit being a ****ing retard

Thragg is high herald on kmc tier thread, Hercules's only low herald

It's decided by people 100 times more knowledgeable than you

Stop spewing your nonsense

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
As the Supreme fight shows, it depends on the writer and always will.

Kirkman writes a f*ck ton of gore in his books. That's his go-to style(look at anything he's ever written.) So naturally when he writes a battle, bones are going to snap, faces will implode, anuses shall be prolapsed, etc. Some people take that as Viltrumites being "squishy" by default.

But as the canon Supreme fight demonstrates: "squishy" is a relative term. If someone like Supreme couldn't bloody Nolan, then I wouldn't assume that Herc or Namor could just waltz up and snap them in half(especially when Thragg > Invincible ~/> Nolan.) Granted, that showing isn't the end-all/be-all, but it IS pretty much the only time a Viltrumite has fought a noteworthy character 'outside' of the Invincible-verse... So I do think it's an important showing to consider from that perspective.

There's also speed to factor in: the Viltrumites here aren't exactly slow, so brick types even hitting them in the first place is questionable, imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
Exactly.

Kirkman writes a f*ck ton of gore in his books. That's his go-to style(look at anything he's ever written.) So naturally when he writes a battle, bones are going to snap, faces will implode, anuses shall be prolapsed, etc. Some people take that as Viltrumites being "squishy" by default.

But as the canon Supreme fight demonstrates: "squishy" is a relative term. If someone like Supreme couldn't bloody Nolan, then I wouldn't assume that Herc or Namor could just waltz up and snap them in half(especially when Thragg > Invincible ~/> Nolan.) Granted, that showing isn't the end-all/be-all, but it IS pretty much the only time a Viltrumite has fought a noteworthy character 'outside' of the Invincible-verse... So I do think it's an important showing to consider from that perspective.

There's also speed to factor in: the Viltrumites here aren't exactly slow, so brick types even hitting them in the first place is questionable, imo.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!

Agreed, the Invincible books are one of the few series where combat speed counts.

Show me. The only time, when Invincible characters move fast, it's when they change clothes.

Y'all bunch of dummies, no joke. Now characters, who burn at the surface of the sun and die upon colliding with planets are considered high heralds. Absolutely hilarious. Hercules still solos.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Agreed, the Invincible books are one of the few series where combat speed counts.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Show me. The only time, when Invincible characters move fast, it's when they change clothes.

Y'all bunch of dummies, no joke. Now characters, who burn at the surface of the sun and die upon colliding with planets are considered high heralds. Absolutely hilarious. Hercules still solos.

Not true.

They fight for days at high speeds.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Not true.

They fight for days at high speeds.

*****, please.

Every herald and their mother bullrush each other at fast speed from one point to another and continue to fight.

The funny thing about that fight is that Battle Beast is a 20 tonner:
https://i.imgur.com/Qi0zA9u.jpeg

A 20 tonner bit "high herald" Thraggs eye out and pierced his limbs with his teeth.

We always joke about how characters usually travel faster than they move. Invincible is hundreds of thousands of times slower than the speed of light. (Don't post that scan with the "FTL ship". That respect thread is a biased mess.)

What else? Invincible failed to stop an asteroid much, much, much, much, much smaller than the moon. He had to redirect it. GREY HULK (!!!) casually destroyed an asteroid twice the size of the Earth. Hyperion caught a planet bigger than Earth moving at 500.000 miles per hour. Imagine that in reverse. Invincible would have died upon touching the planet, just like he would have died alongside two other top tier Viltrumites upon colliding with a planet, if Space Racer hadn't destabilized the core of the planet first.

What else? Starts burning to a crisp upon touching the surface of a sun. Actual high heralds take sunbaths in the sun.

What else? Gets stopped cold by city-leveling beams. What else? Gets hurt and caughs blood after being caught up in one of the 50 explosions, which destroy a city.

Literally all of the highest showings for Invincible characters don't even come close to what's expected of a high herald. You people are absolutely high, if you think that Invincible characters are anywhere close the high herald level. Including Thragg, who as I said: gets bloodied left and right by a 20 tonner, burns and dies from touching the surface of the sun and gets his limbs broken from a guy, who can't slow down an asteroid much smaller than the moon.

Invincible is a weaker Superboy.

Now GTFO.

Originally posted by Enzeru

Invincible is a weaker Superboy.

so Sentry level

Originally posted by Enzeru
*****, please.

Every herald and their mother bullrush each other at fast speed from one point to another and continue to fight.

The funny thing about that fight is that Battle Beast is a 20 tonner:
https://i.imgur.com/Qi0zA9u.jpeg

A 20 tonner bit "high herald" Thraggs eye out and pierced his limbs with his teeth.

We always joke about how characters usually travel faster than they move. Invincible is hundreds of thousands of times slower than the speed of light. (Don't post that scan with the "FTL ship". That respect thread is a biased mess.)

What else? Invincible failed to stop an asteroid much, much, much, much, much smaller than the moon. He had to redirect it. GREY HULK (!!!) casually destroyed an asteroid twice the size of the Earth. Hyperion caught a planet bigger than Earth moving at 500.000 miles per hour. Imagine that in reverse. Invincible would have died upon touching the planet, just like he would have died alongside two other top tier Viltrumites upon colliding with a planet, if Space Racer hadn't destabilized the core of the planet first.

What else? Starts burning to a crisp upon touching the surface of a sun. Actual high heralds take sunbaths in the sun.

What else? Gets stopped cold by city-leveling beams. What else? Gets hurt and caughs blood after being caught up in one of the 50 explosions, which destroy a city.

Literally all of the highest showings for Invincible characters don't even come close to what's expected of a high herald. You people are absolutely high, if you think that Invincible characters are anywhere close the high herald level. Including Thragg, who as I said: gets bloodied left and right by a 20 tonner, burns and dies from touching the surface of the sun and gets his limbs broken from a guy, who can't slow down an asteroid much smaller than the moon.

Invincible is a weaker Superboy.

Now GTFO.

Handbooks are one thing, comic showings are another. Besides, what does his strength have to do with things (even IF correct)? What strength class is Barry Allen? Wally? Dr Strange?

But I must note that GREY HULK needed help to destroy that asteroid. But that's by the by.

Your original point was that Invincible verse characters only changed their clothes at high speed. I post that they actually fight at high speed, (with one character actually in this thread) and your rebuttal is....bullrushing? Travelling?

Interesting to point out as well, of Invincible is a weaker Superboy, Battle Beast (the erm 20 tonner) has beaten him handily before.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Handbooks are one thing, comic showings are another.

The Handbook was published back in 2006. BB's 'all-out' fight with Thragg didn't happen until 2014. Clearly BB's strength was intended to have massively increased over the years... Which is the case with pretty much every character in the Invincible-verse.

For what it's worth, the Handbook also states "at least" 20 tons... So it doesn't even firmly cap him at that level.

The handbook didn't even have an entry for Thragg, lol.

And said the uppermost limits of Mark's strength were unknown.

And that Vilrumnites could be as strong as the story required.

I'd be laughed at if I tried using those statements, though 🙁

Wow that handbook entry is eye opening. It just doesn't comport well with how battlebeast was portrayed.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Wow that handbook entry is eye opening. It just doesn't comport well with how battlebeast was portrayed.

👆

Mark was given as a 30 tonner at the time, lol.

Originally posted by Galan007
Exactly.

Kirkman writes a f*ck ton of gore in his books. That's his go-to style(look at anything he's ever written.) So naturally when he writes a battle, bones are going to snap, faces will implode, anuses shall be prolapsed, etc. Some people take that as Viltrumites being "squishy" by default.

But as the canon Supreme fight demonstrates: "squishy" is a relative term. If someone like Supreme couldn't bloody Nolan, then I wouldn't assume that Herc or Namor could just waltz up and snap them in half(especially when Thragg > Invincible ~/> Nolan.) Granted, that showing isn't the end-all/be-all, but it IS pretty much the only time a Viltrumite has fought a noteworthy character 'outside' of the Invincible-verse... So I do think it's an important showing to consider from that perspective.

There's also speed to factor in: the Viltrumites here aren't exactly slow, so brick types even hitting them in the first place is questionable, imo.

One would imagine a sufficiently motivated one would argue the reverse, and the fact that somebody like Conquest/Thragg can punch through people like Omni Man, while somebody like Juggernaut/Hulk do not punch through Thing as evidence of how much more powerful they are.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
👆

Mark was given as a 30 tonner at the time, lol.