Originally posted by abhilegend
No, Cap only had power of leaping just like Superman did in the start. He started flying in Whiz Comics 5.
So by all means show me where in whiz 5 hisbpowers changed to give him this new power?
If not shiw me what changed in 4 that allowed for the power change in 5.
Far far more likely that he could always fly but didn't know it or try to. Much like he e experimented with his powers in the Shazam movie and only gradually learned that one of his powers included flight
Originally posted by beatboks
So by all means show me where in whiz 5 hisbpowers changed to give him this new power?If not shiw me what changed in 4 that allowed for the power change in 5.
Far far more likely that he could always fly but didn't know it or try to. Much like he e experimented with his powers in the Shazam movie and only gradually learned that one of his powers included flight
If Superman had flown in the first half dozen, hell even a full dozen issues then yes that logic could apply. He didn't however take flight until issue 32 of Action comics Jan 1941 when he followed a car from overhead. In his Superman title it was issue 9 march 1941 when he "streaked up" to intercept a missile (the first time it wasn't referred to as leaping).
That's 50 or so superman stories (the Superman title had 3 or 4 stories an issue) without flight, leaping, holding onto plane undercarriage (that one is specifically from Superman 8 jan 1941), while Cap flew in his 4th story.
You can't claim it as an unlearned ability of someone who grew up with their powers learning them before he even put on the cape when he had that much experience before he exhibited the ability. A kidnon the other hand who is simply given the powers and told he is mighty who fly 4 stories later. I mean come on it's chalk and cheese for "the big red cheese"
No, that logic would apply indifferently. You're making a random cutoff point for no other reason other than the fact that you have no argument. Saying "yeah, but it took Captain Marvel less issues for the writers to have him fly instead of leap than Superman!" is a non sequitur.
This:
he could fly from day dot
Is wrong.
Simple.
The thread is about 1938 Superman vs 1940 Captain Marvel. You're trying to retroactively insert Captain Marvel flying instead of leaping, the same thing that could be done for Superman. But this is done for neither, because, well, the actual thread specifically says it's the versions from those years.
Is it so hard to admit that 1938 Superman is more powerful than 1940 Captain Marvel?
Originally posted by abhilegend
By Action Comics 5 (Oct 1938), Superman was running as fast as light and destroying mountain peaks.
👆
Much lower level than the mountain peak, but he also easily lifted and supported a bridge while a train passed in the same issue:
The thread is about 1938 Superman vs 1940 Captain Marvel. You're trying to retroactively insert Captain Marvel flying instead of leaping, the same thing that could be done for Superman. But this is done for neither, because, well, the actual thread specifically says it's the versions from those years.
Captaon Marvel did fly in 1940. He debuted in feb and was flying in may
Superman did not fly in 1938, he didn't fly until Jan1941 with some showings that aren't said as leaping, he didn't officially fly until Oct 1943 in Action 65.
I'm not retroactively inserting anything as the feats I'm mentioning are specific to the year mentioned.
In Whiz comics 5 may 1940 cap flies from NY to Chicago in a single panel, from Chicago to California in another. In 1938 superman has one caption only supporting a speed showing but his speed feats dont support that caption (even visually in that caption).
Superman's stated powers in 1938
He could leap 1/8th a mile, was strong enoughbto lift great weight and could outrun an express train. Also importantly a busting shell could actually harm him.
Had the OP not specified the year and just said GA then Supes would be more powerful because he reached much greater speeds and had much greater strength feats in 1942- 1945 than cap. The fact is that thebyears stated slightly (and only slightly) favour Cap. Cap had a slightly greater durability in 40 than Supes had in 38. Cap had the flight advantage, cap had more speed showings of note that could actually have a figure put to them. In overall strength showings there isn't much in it.
1940 cap vs late 1940 1941 Supes is about even slight lean toward Clark. 1942/3 Superman wipes the floor with 1940 Cap and is above all GA showings of Cap. But this isn't the case for 1938 Superman.
Originally posted by beatboksYou are correct about Whiz Comics #5 -- I conflated the "Captain Marvel didn't fly from the start" with "Whiz Comics where he first flew isn't published in 1940" because I assumed it was the same point after your discussion with abhi and didn't bother to check. So for the purpose of this thread, he can fly. What you are incorrect about is using him flying in a subsequent issue (#5), as proof that he could always do so when, as already state, the same logic can be used for Superman. The point that each of them started flying is inconsequential, it can be Superman #11 and Whiz Comics #5 -- but the main thing they both leaped in the beginning, then flying was introduced. This is clearly seen in Whiz Comics #1 when he leaps between buildings [gee whiz, I wonder where he got that from]:
Captaon Marvel did fly in 1940. He debuted in feb and was flying in maySuperman did not fly in 1938, he didn't fly until Jan1941 with some showings that aren't said as leaping, he didn't officially fly until Oct 1943 in Action 65.
I'm not retroactively inserting anything as the feats I'm mentioning are specific to the year mentioned.
In Whiz comics 5 may 1940 cap flies from NY to Chicago in a single panel, from Chicago to California in another. In 1938 superman has one caption only supporting a speed showing but his speed feats dont support that caption (even visually in that caption).
Superman's stated powers in 1938
He could leap 1/8th a mile, was strong enoughbto lift great weight and could outrun an express train. Also importantly a busting shell could actually harm him.
Had the OP not specified the year and just said GA then Supes would be more powerful because he reached much greater speeds and had much greater strength feats in 1942- 1945 than cap. The fact is that thebyears stated slightly (and only slightly) favour Cap. Cap had a slightly greater durability in 40 than Supes had in 38. Cap had the flight advantage, cap had more speed showings of note that could actually have a figure put to them. In overall strength showings there isn't much in it.
1940 cap vs late 1940 1941 Supes is about even slight lean toward Clark. 1942/3 Superman wipes the floor with 1940 Cap and is above all GA showings of Cap. But this isn't the case for 1938 Superman.
In Whiz comics #3 we can see him run after planes on foot to hang on to them:
In fact, in Whiz Comics #3 he takes a rocket to Venus and he needed to build another rocket [with the wisdom of Solomon] to fly back home [bonus: giant frogs and steel cables]
https://i.ibb.co/xzzFY8W/RCO004.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/WPGYTS0/RCO006.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/xFnydm5/RCO007.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/hHTfN4r/RCO008.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/QbdXbqm/RCO009.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/fXckW1h/RCO010.jpg
In issue 4 Captain Marvel has to follow Sivana on foot who blows up bridges so that he cannot follow [yes, it is that blatant], and Cap leaps rivers to catch up to him:
https://i.ibb.co/h9ZWWc7/RCO011.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/R3JHJXv/RCO012-w.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/Dwg5KVx/RCO013.jpg
It is very clear that Captain Marvel could not fly in his introduction, and only leap.
Furthermore, your initial posts are wrong in response to this thread, because this:
Originally posted by beatboks
Captain Marvel stomps. He started out at a much higher level than Supes or Namor.
Oh please, 1938 superman was literally as powerful as the tag lines at peak.Faster than a speeding bullet (sonic fast not light speed)
More powerful than a locomotive (strong enough to push against a train engine to stop it, though normally he lifted cars etc)
..is simply not true. In 1938 he was running "at the speed of light", pushing down mountain peaks, lifting bridges for trains to pass over.
As you might notice the tag is "faster than", "more powerful than". It's not "as fast as a" and "as powerful as".
Originally posted by beatboks
Captain Marvel stomps. He started out at a much higher level than Supes or Namor. The reason why Superman's powers were increased in the 40s was to compete with whiz comics that was selling near a million copies an issue or above. By 42 GA Supes was virtually SA level as a result.
Sure, but Whiz was just dialing up what Superman did to 11, hardly an original concept.
I agree with you on initial power levels. Superman was a far more interesting character though, with his ultra activist hard line stance that wasn't above personally leveling a slum while the United States military attacked him, just so they'd qualify for a relief initiative.
