Originally posted by Arachnid1
LMAO he had nothing to lose so he may as well have gone full anti-hero.I like that he came off more redeemable in the finale though.
Yeah, they showed that although he has some questionable tactics, deep down he still wants to do the right thing. They even have the bit
Spoiler:
where he has to choose between going after Karli again or grabbing the truck and he chooses the later.He still seems slightly off though. When he got his new US Agent costume towards the end of the episode he did that weird neck twitch thing again at one point which he started doing after taking the serum.
Originally posted by TheVaultDwellerI didn't even notice that. Good catch! I actually do hope it's an ongoing problem. TBH I hope they do Dark Avengers, The Jury, or Thunderbolts (taking a few liberties, of course since he's never been on this team) with Walker. His most illuminating line was in the second episode when he talked about how conflicted he felt about all his medals in the military and what he did to earn them. I think Walker is at his most interesting when they rev up the inner turmoil, and the serum could turn that up to 11. Could you imagine him on some covert super team doing questionable ops and struggling with the morality of it of it all? They could take Walker some pretty dark places in the MCU.
Yeah, they showed that although he has some questionable tactics, deep down he still wants to do the right thing. They even have the bitSpoiler:
where he has to choose between going after Karli again or grabbing the truck and he chooses the later.He still seems slightly off though. When he got his new US Agent costume towards the end of the episode he did that weird neck twitch thing again at one point which he started doing after taking the serum.
Originally posted by Arachnid1
I didn't even notice that. Good catch! I actually do hope it's an ongoing problem. TBH I hope they do Dark Avengers, The Jury, or Thunderbolts (taking a few liberties, of course since he's never been on this team) with Walker. His most illuminating line was in the second episode when he talked about how conflicted he felt about all his medals in the military and what he did to earn them. I think Walker is at his most interesting when they rev up the inner turmoil, and the serum could turn that up to 11. Could you imagine him on some covert super team doing questionable ops and struggling with the morality of it of it all? They could take Walker some pretty dark places in the MCU.
At the 0:34 mark in the clip,
Spoiler:
he does the neck twitch again. And it seems like an involuntary action, so looks like there's still some instability. I'm just glad they didn't kill him off. The MCU has had a bad habit of doing that in the past and wasting a lot of potential in the process.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljdw4qUcIaQ
But yes, it would be interesting seeing him act in a more grey area within the MCU and see how his psyche copes with it.
Walker once again proved to be extremely strong though.
Spoiler:
From what I can recall, those types of armored trucks shown in the episode weigh like eight to ten tons, and it was full of people when he grabbed it. And he even briefly takes one of his hands off to smack away a charging Flag Smasher while holding it with his other one. And it eventually takes two of them piling onto him to break his grip.
Also, while I did like
Spoiler:
the bit honouring Isaiah Bradley at the end, I kind of wish we'd seen more of him during the show, maybe in a flashback or something. But maybe they can do a spinoff with him down the line.
Originally posted by TheVaultDwellerSuper Soldiers are strong AF, look at Cap.
Walker once again proved to be extremely strong though.Spoiler:
From what I can recall, those types of armored trucks shown in the episode weigh like eight to ten tons, and it was full of people when he grabbed it. And he even briefly takes one of his hands off to smack away a charging Flag Smasher while holding it with his other one. And it eventually takes two of them piling onto him to break his grip.Also, while I did like
Spoiler:
the bit honouring Isaiah Bradley at the end, I kind of wish we'd seen more of him during the show, maybe in a flashback or something. But maybe they can do a spinoff with him down the line.
Originally posted by Arachnid1Like I said, he didn't think she was going to kill him.
The fact that she was going to kill him shows how dumb of a move it was. He would have been an even shorter lived Cap than Walker.Hell, she even told him in an earlier episode that she doesn't want to kill him because he wasn't wearing the star so it would be pointless. It didn't align with her ideals. She only wanted to kill Cap and smash flags. Then he showed up wearing the star and holding the shield and he expects her to not kill him because they had a 5 minute conversation once a week prior? The same lady who blew up innocent civilians and is buffed by the SS serum? The ends justified the means with her, and Wilsons entire gift is being able to read people.
There is no way that wasn't a dumb move. Yes, he empathized with her cause (as he should, his argument was spot on), but it still doesn't make sense for him to not just take her down and proceed from there. At least in that scenario, she'd still be alive.
Like Cap not fighting back against Bucky.
Originally posted by MindsetI know he thought that. Like I said, it was a dumb conclusion for him to come to.
Super Soldiers are strong AF, look at Cap. Like I said, he didn't think she was going to kill him.Like Cap not fighting back against Bucky.
At least with Bucky, Cap saw the cracks prior (versus Karli holding to the Smashers plans and ideals 100% and flat out telling him she would kill him if he wore the symbol).
He had also already succeeded in completely shutting down Hydra's plan, and fought Bucky right up until the moment he took out the carriers (versus killing Cap still being on the menu for the Smashers and her freedom meaning the mission would continue).
He also knew Bucky basically his entire life (versus Falcon letting a literal stranger do the same).
Unlike Sam, Rogers was right. WS saved his life directly after (versus Karli trying to execute Sam). Those situations were polar opposites, contextually.
Originally posted by TheVaultDwellerI thought for sure Wakanda was going to execute Zemo a few episodes too. Glad they didn't. WandaVision kept Agatha around too, thankfully. Keep villains alive!
At the 0:34 mark in the clip,Spoiler:
he does the neck twitch again. And it seems like an involuntary action, so looks like there's still some instability. I'm just glad they didn't kill him off. The MCU has had a bad habit of doing that in the past and wasting a lot of potential in the process.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljdw4qUcIaQ
But yes, it would be interesting seeing him act in a more grey area within the MCU and see how his psyche copes with it.
Originally posted by Arachnid1Bucky could have killed Cap too, he had already tried to multiple times. Logically, it was stupid for Cap to stop fighting back.
I know he thought that. Like I said, it was a dumb conclusion for him to come to.At least with Bucky, Cap saw the cracks prior (versus Karli holding to the Smashers plans and ideals 100% and flat out telling him she would kill him if he wore the symbol).
He had also already succeeded in completely shutting down Hydra's plan, and fought Bucky right up until the moment he took out the carriers (versus killing Cap still being on the menu for the Smashers and her freedom meaning the mission would continue).
He also knew Bucky basically his entire life (versus Falcon letting a literal stranger do the same).
Unlike Sam, Rogers was right. WS saved his life directly after (versus Karli trying to execute Sam). Those situations were polar opposites, contextually.
I thought for sure Wakanda was going to execute Zemo a few episodes too. Glad they didn't. WandaVision kept Agatha around too, thankfully. Keep villains alive!
I'm not really sure why you're arguing here though. Whether it was a dumb move or not isn't really relevant to what we were initially talking about. There's no reason to expect Falcon to act like Steve...anyway, it's possible Steve would have done the same thing if he empathized with her.
I was pretty underwhelmed with the whole show. I liked Walkers characterization. They nailed him. Sam upped his game and has become a pretty formidable fighter. Zemo was awesome.
The storyline itself was a bit meh. I wanted Bucky to be a bit more merciless. Thought Sharon was annoying.
Spoiler:
The reveal not being Jennifer Walters was a bummer
Originally posted by MindsetThe point wasn't the comparison to Steve. That's why I agreed with you when you brought up the fact that he doesn't necessarily have to act like Steve after my initial post about that scene. I also didn't make any Cap comparisons after that initial post until you brought up Steve's situation with Bucky. You're the one making it about Rogers at this point by focusing your entire argument on him (as if that somehow makes NuCaps decision to let Karli execute him right).
Bucky could have killed Cap too, he had already tried to multiple times. Logically, it was stupid for Cap to stop fighting back.I'm not really sure why you're arguing here though. Whether it was a dumb move or not isn't really relevant to what we were initially talking about. There's no reason to expect Falcon to act like Steve...anyway, it's possible Steve would have done the same thing if he empathized with her.
Sure, purely logically Roger's should find a better way to break through to WS from a safer position, but it still wasn't the same. Sam's situation was exponentially more senseless since it had no base or history to it, he was doing with a complete stranger, and he had a lot more on the line there than just his own life (the whole mission and Sharons life). I don't think Steve would have done the same knowing what's on the line. The closest parallel I can think of was the fight with Iron Man (though Sam's situation is still worse than this since Rogers was at least friends with Stark). Bucky's life was on the line like Sharon's, and keeping him alive while clearing his name was Caps mission all movie. Roger's didn't passively let IM beat him and WS down while he tried to reason. He fought, reasoned, and took IM down non-lethally. The best case scenario for him since no one died, and he accomplished his own mission to keep Bucky alive.
Anyway, enough about Rogers. Let's just contextualize this exchange. My point is that he made the wrong move, and it was stupid (the very first sentence of that very first post about this subject). Every single post I've made since has repeated that and given multiple reasons as to why it was. Do you disagree with that main idea?
Originally posted by Arachnid1You write way too much.
The point wasn't the comparison to Steve. That's why I agreed with you when you brought up the fact that he doesn't necessarily have to act like Steve after my initial post about that scene. I also didn't make any Cap comparisons after that initial post until you brought up Steve's situation with Bucky. You're the one making it about Rogers at this point by focusing your entire argument on him (as if that somehow makes NuCaps decision to let Karli execute him right).Sure, purely logically Roger's should find a better way to break through to WS from a safer position, but it still wasn't the same. Sam's situation was exponentially more senseless since it had no base or history to it, he was doing with a complete stranger, and he had a lot more on the line there than just his own life (the whole mission and Sharons life). I don't think Steve would have done the same knowing what's on the line. The closest parallel I can think of was the fight with Iron Man (though Sam's situation is still worse than this since Rogers was at least friends with Stark). Bucky's life was on the line like Sharon's, and keeping him alive while clearing his name was Caps mission all movie. Roger's didn't passively let IM beat him and WS down while he tried to reason. He fought, reasoned, and took IM down non-lethally. The best case scenario for him since no one died, and he accomplished his own mission to keep Bucky alive.
Anyway, enough about Rogers. Let's just contextualize this exchange. My point is that he made the wrong move, and it was stupid (the very first sentence of that very first post about this subject). Every single post I've made since has repeated that and given multiple reasons as to why it was. Do you disagree with that main idea?
Condense your posts.